Paphiopedilum philippinense roebelinii

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DrLeslieEe

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Finally a spike and guess what I did?!!? I broke off the second flower moving it to take pics.

Silly me… I swore so much lol.

Anyways I clamped it back on to take the pics. Poor thing.

Petals 10 cm only… looking for 15-20 cm lol.

Dark markings and petals though.

Plant looks dehydrated in its journey to flower. Might cut off spike in a few days to let plant recover.

2C4E18B8-481B-4FCA-832D-B4EFDB7A30C5.jpeg D4CC3498-2C58-442D-98F0-C6BD44041B14.jpeg AF09EB81-A363-4648-A2DD-60275BAC0FDB.jpeg 9D660B31-DB33-4223-89BD-87F30D3875DA.jpeg
 

NEslipper

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First off, some congratulations are in order, you can no longer say that you’ve never flowered this species! It’s always a great feeling to flower something for the first time! Congratulations!

The dark petals are stunning, hopefully they’ll lengthen some more over the next few days. Hillsview posted some photos a while back of a similarly colored clone. The overall shape also looked similar, perhaps they are related. What’s the parentage?

I’m pretty sure I have a 100% track record of dropping all my most highly anticipated plants while setting them up for their glamour shots. Somehow everything I’m less excited about survives unscathed…
 

DrLeslieEe

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Thanks for that!

Yes it is a victory to finally flower this species. The second only to lowii for MFs. Now to get both roths and sandies to bud! Caveat: I swear MF species hate me. They whisper a conspiracy behind my back and taunt me with bright luscious growths that just grows and grows.

Oh, and …. Moving plants should come with a reminder (or rather a stern warning):

‘Move at your own risk’ or
‘Flowers will decapitate if moved!’ 😂

As for provenance of plant, it came from Orchid Inn with a tag that I lost in transit. The very black petals may be linked to the one you saw. They are not that common I take it? I’ll check the petal lengths in the non-decapitated flowers in the weekend and see their final lengths.
 

gego

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Congrats for making it bloom with artificial lights. My experience is that LED, full spectrum, still could not make MFs to flower it's full potential if they flower at all. The growth is also very different. Natural light is still the best even if it is filtered down low. Strap Vandas do not like AL at all. Interestingly, Catts seems to adjust to it.
 

DrLeslieEe

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Congrats for making it bloom with artificial lights. My experience is that LED, full spectrum, still could not make MFs to flower it's full potential if they flower at all. The growth is also very different. Natural light is still the best even if it is filtered down low. Strap Vandas do not like AL at all. Interestingly, Catts seems to adjust to it.
I did put some where some South window light do touch them for few hours. But still no difference. Maybe need full sun lol.
 
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dodidoki

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Very nice as always, great color, form, long, twisted petals, perfect, obviously.I have one question: difference between old phil and rob??? I can t see.
 
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cnycharles

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Nice flowers! I’d take it to judging anyway. You got it to flower in the Great White North, show it off!
Back in upstate ny when I had lots of trichoplilias, they would catch me not looking and shoot out a flower bud mixed around everything near them, and trying to move them often a bud would ‘zip’ off (sigh)
 

DrLeslieEe

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Thanks everyone for the comments. Maybe I will show it after all. You never know.

Now the interesting discussion of the differences between philippinense and roebelinii. According to literature, these are what I found:

1. Thinner and stiffer leaves on roebeliniis
2. Longer and more twisting in petals on roebeliniis (more than 13 cm)
3. Roebeliniis are usually smaller plants but can get as big as philippinense
4. Staminode on philippinense has green veinings while no green veins on roebeliniis

This plant is more compact than the other philippinenses I have with slightly thinner/stiffer leaves. It also has the petal twists. In addition it has no green veins on the staminode.

Here are closer pics of my flower’s staminode:

B4741133-73B5-40C5-BC45-A9B40F0BFDCB.jpeg 010A0348-1126-4636-9A0A-097184FB13DA.jpeg

Please also refer to the discussion in this philippinense post from last year:


I also contacted Olaf to get his opinion on the differences. Let’s see what the expert says.
 

dodidoki

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Many thanks, Leslie. Another question: how do you make difference between album forms? Every album form what I see is smallmer than regular form, so size is not the best point to make difference. Veins can t be seen on staminodal shield on albas. Maybe longer twisted petals?
 

DrLeslieEe

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Many thanks, Leslie. Another question: how do you make difference between album forms? Every album form what I see is smallmer than regular form, so size is not the best point to make difference. Veins can t be seen on staminodal shield on albas. Maybe longer twisted petals?
Interesting question.

Besides the alba compactum ones, I would say to tell the difference between the alba phillie and alba roebbie will be the length of the twisted petals (> 13 cm in roebbies) as you mentioned and/or the plant leaves (thinner and stiffer, when compared side by side).

I have a few large unbloomed phillie albas here along with a division of thin leaved roebelinii alba plant that you can tell the sizes are noticeably different (but that could be because the roebbies are still large but unbloomed ones).

Anyone here have experience with albums in this species?
 

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The base for determination is the description which was published in Gardener's Chronicle‘ n.s. 20: 684; 1883. On the base of these words I would say that your plant is Paph. philippinense var. roebbelinii. When loo then also to the old prints then you confirm this decision. Here a picture published in Xenia Orchidacea pl.265; 1900.Paphiopedilum philippinense var roebelinii - Xenia Orchidacea plate 265 - 1900.jpg Paphiopedilum philippinense var roebelinii - Xenia Orchidacea plate 265 - 1900.jpg Paphiopedilum philippinense var. robbelinii - Gardener's Chronicle‘ n.s. 20 684 1883.jpg Paphiopedilum philippinense var. robbelinii - Gardener's Chronicle‘ n.s. 20 684 1883.jpg
 

DrLeslieEe

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Thank you Olaf so much for this historical description and print. And to confirm that my plant is indeed a roebelinii.

Fun fact: I noticed the correct spelling in the article is ROBBELENII after Herr Robbelen.

But since then Kew reported in all 3 descriptions from history as roebbelenii (with an extra ‘e’ in the first syllable):

Homotypic Synonyms​


And the final accepted var is consequently philippinense var roebbelenii:

F53584CE-87AE-4601-83BD-D977EC3FF5BB.png
 
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Thanks everyone for the comments. Maybe I will show it after all. You never know.

Now the interesting discussion of the differences between philippinense and roebelinii. According to literature, these are what I found:

1. Thinner and stiffer leaves on roebeliniis
2. Longer and more twisting in petals on roebeliniis (more than 13 cm)
3. Roebeliniis are usually smaller plants but can get as big as philippinense
4. Staminode on philippinense has green veinings while no green veins on roebeliniis

This plant is more compact than the other philippinenses I have with slightly thinner/stiffer leaves. It also has the petal twists. In addition it has no green veins on the staminode.

Here are closer pics of my flower’s staminode:

View attachment 38181 View attachment 38182

Please also refer to the discussion in this philippinense post from last year:


I also contacted Olaf to get his opinion on the differences. Let’s see what the expert says.
Are you not seeing green veining in those closeups?
 

DirGo

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Fun fact: I noticed the correct spelling in the article is ROBBELENII after Herr Robbelen.
But since then Kew reported in all 3 descriptions from history as roebbelenii (with an extra ‘e’ in the first syllable):
Adding to that fun fact: there is the German letter ö (o with two dots on top - o with umlaut) and that always get 'translated' to oe in scientific names as explained in the International Association for Plant Taxonomy (IAPT) rules:
60.7. Diacritical signs are not used in scientific names. When names (either new or old) are drawn from words in which such signs appear, the signs are to be suppressed with the necessary transcription of the letters so modified; for example ä, ö, ü become, respectively, ae, oe, ue (copied from: www.iapt-taxon.org )
 

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