Paphiopedilum hangianum

[John M]

I’m getting your point John. Regarding the size issue:
I agree, you are right! We haven’t been given the flower dimensions before. I have used the wire, clip and wooden-stick to arrive at my judgement, which is not very professional, I admit. On that base the flower does/would appear small, even in hangianum terms.
The first time I have ever seen a Harold Koopowitz I nearly passed out because of is enormity. I do know that H.K. hybrids do pass on the “big flower gens”…

Of course, as we debate this, I recognise that nobody is going to be proven to be correct. The provenence of this plant is unknown (at this point) and we are only making educated guesses here. However, I believe that size only is a very weak criteria to use in identification. When you think about any plants, be they dandelions, trilliums, arisaema, etc., there are always some very large clones and some very small ones in the same colony. While the "good" ones are normally big to huge, I've seen some very small roths and downright tiny malipoenses as well as some very small armeniacums and micranthums. Also, perhaps the MSU fertilizer, which seems to be causing some sort of deficiency in this case, has reduced the size of these blooms???

 

[Pete]

it kind of looks like Jade Dragon x Hangi

 

[cnycharles]

interesting discussion. if the plant was getting poor nutrition and had bright light, it would likely be stunted a bit. nutritional deficiencies/imbalances often can show interveinal chlorosis (green pattern) and can be a way to try and discover just which nutritional problem it is .. as far as which parents it has, way beyond me! I definitely agree that it's a nice flower with very nice color even if it is a hybrid

 

[paworsport]

leaves are narrow and the overall look let me think to gardineri plant : clump of small growth with narrow green leaves. The color is close to gardineri too. But in fact I never heard of hangianum x gardineri.....

 

[John M]

it kind of looks like Jade Dragon x Hangi

That is another VERY good possibility. At first I wondered about that and then dismissed the idea because of the lack of fairieanum-shape influence on the petals and dorsal sepal. However, I've just googled Jade Dragon and found plenty of photos that show the normally very dominant shape of fairieanum are much more subdued than I had remembered. There were many photos of Jade Dragons that if crossed with hangianum could produce a flower just like Kavanaru's. Paph. Jade Dragons even have the pointy tip to the lip rim!

So, if fairieanum is a grand parent and not roth, that would fit with the smaller plant size as well as flower size, colour and shape. Hmmmmm?

 

[John Boy]

Ramón, am I right guessing that there a at least 2 if not 3 seperate (individual) plants within this pot? The second plant-picture sort of gives away that the front plant has narrower leafs than the plant in bloom...and looks different altogether. If that would be right, we'll probably get another shot at guessing when the next one opens up!

 

[Kavanaru]

John Boy, this is only one plant. it came with two larger growths and a small one (this is the one with the second spike) and has grown to a 7 growths plant.

 

[PaphMadMan]

leaves are narrow and the overall look let me think to gardineri plant : clump of small growth with narrow green leaves. The color is close to gardineri too. But in fact I never heard of hangianum x gardineri.....

Petals WAY too broad for a gardineri cross.

 

[PaphMadMan]

it kind of looks like Jade Dragon x Hangi

I could see that - somewhat similar to my hangianum x Ma Belle suggestion.

 

[John Boy]

Just to think it out aloud and to potentially make myself unpopular…
I can’t believe or imagine any rothschildianum or fairianum involvement here. With either I would ever so strongly expect to find some hints within the overall flower shape, or pouch shape or form… I was under the impression that with any fairianum involvement, no matter how far down the tree that would have happened, there would be a flower-shape that would give it away. As for rothschildianum: the staminode-disc doesn’t work for me. And I can’t believe you could hide rothschildianum within a flower to the extend that “only it’s colouration” would show through, but all other aspects like shape, form or its distinct and hairy staminode structure (including its weird and distinct shape) would disappear in full. Most certainly not, if that rothschildianum would only be a parent or grandparent or uncle. Non of this really works for me…

 

[Kavanaru]

here some pics of Paph Alexej I have found in the web:

http://www.slipperorchid.org/gallery.display.photo.asp?image_id=71&lib_id=6
http://www.slipperorchid.org/gallery.display.photo.asp?image_id=72&lib_id=6
http://www.slipperorchid.org/gallery.display.photo.asp?image_id=73&lib_id=6
http://www.cloudsorchids.com/paphs.htm the first plant.

teh plant in ebay http://cgi.ebay.de/Paphiopedilum-Al...en_Garten_Blumen_Pflanzen&hash=item3cae10e36e

also Paph Palace Harmonie (St. Swithin X hangianum)

http://www.slipperorchid.org/gallery.display.photo.asp?image_id=80&lib_id=6
http://www.slipperorchid.org/gallery.display.photo.asp?image_id=81&lib_id=6
http://www.slipperorchid.org/gallery.display.photo.asp?image_id=82&lib_id=6

Paphiopedilum In-Charm Hangbird = (Susan Booth x hangianum )
http://www.slipperorchid.org/gallery.display.photo.asp?image_id=83&lib_id=6
http://www.slipperorchid.org/gallery.display.photo.asp?image_id=84&lib_id=6

 

[John Boy]

Does it strike you too?
All these flowers are disfigured or are heavily twisted. Yours isn’t!!!, yours only has slight colouration hiccup. I can’t help it…: there’s no multifloral in your plant! I would think we need to consider the Parvisepalum Primary Hybrids around malipoense and keep our eyes on your staminode disc.

 

[PaphMadMan]

Does it strike you too?
All these flowers are disfigured or are heavily twisted. Yours isn’t!!!, yours only has slight colouration hiccup. I can’t help it…: there’s no multifloral in your plant! I would think we need to consider the Parvisepalum Primary Hybrids around malipoense and keep our eyes on your staminode disc.

And none of them come close to the broad petals and full form in general.

 

[John Boy]

I think I've got a hunch!!!!!!!!!!

Could you guys consider hangianum x Fanaticum for me please!? Tell me I'm mad!!! I know it anyways!

First I was playing with the albino version of malipoense, (just to get rid of the raspberry colour in the disc)...but mybe we don't have to, since there's so much variation in Fanaticum, depending on the micrathum parent!....

Am I mad?

 

[John Boy]

This would be my father parent:

http://www.slipperorchids.info/paphdatasheets/parvisepalum/micranthum/PaphFanaticum.jpg

 

[Mrs. Paph]

lol, I don't think you're mad - we can't know for sure, so I'd say that's a good contending guess. And I'd agree - if there's any multifloral influence on the hybrid it's back a ways, b/c that's a Beautiful hybrid, and those multi x hang ones are decidedly not! Even without deformities, those other hybrids weren't close in shape.

 

[John Boy]

It does fit. Even if I'm mad!

 

[tenman]

Have you sent these pics to popow and asked him? That would be my first move.

 

[Pete]

it has multiple flowers so it likely has something from cochlopetalum or coryopedilum in it

 

[NYEric]

I'm no paph expert but I'm pretty sure it's not straight hang!