paphiopedilum canhii album ?

[valenzino]

Dear Braem,

Have you seen plants ( paphiopedilum ) with pigment on the underside of the leaves flowers albino ?

In my opinion is a true P.canhii...about being albino...is highly possible but no way to say untill not flowered...take as example the P.jackii albas....a lot around but probably only 4-5 plants are really alba...all others are semi-alba.
But still important plant...seems to have albino gene,and also if will flower with normal colour,the progeny from selfing will produce some albinos...so buy it,flower it,pollinate it and produce albinos from it!!!

There are many pigmented semi-alba or alba flowered. wenshanense,bellatulum,concolor,coccineum,villosum,helenae....this I seen personally,but shurely will be more...but those plants have not to be considered albino forms,but shurely have albino gene inside and can be used to produce pure albino forms.
There is also a strange P.micranthum,with very dark/vinicolor leaves(resembling delenatii vini but different),that have albino o nearly albino flower.

 

[quietaustralian]

It looks like a canhii to me but Dr. Braem's comment is correct.

If I was offered the plant at a reasonable price, I'd buy it and take a punt.

Mick

 

[Roth]

Dear Sir Braem,

I did not say, which albino is, possible albino or possible semi albino

Plants witht the lack of pigment on the underside of the leaves: delenatii, vietnamense , philippinense, helenae, lowii, (micranthum) , (malipoense jackii) ,concolor, haynaldianum , charlesworthii, fairrieanum, villosum, hirsutissimum, appletonianum, sukhakulii, x wardii , callosum , javanicum, flowers albino

Most likely NOT albino. I have seen it in Vietnam with jackii, micranthum, and delenatii, China with armeniacum, appletonianum, and villosum. When too many plants are collected with leaves lacking the typical red color, they are not albino, but just normal ones, like the jackii 'album' in the trade. Only a few are real alba, and NONE found from the jackii album colony, that's confirmed. Selfing of those will unfortunately not give albinos, it is just a separate colony.

Canhii with green leaves, I have one, there are 2 more in Germany, there are 4 in Taiwan, two more in Japan, those two you pictured, one in Ha Tay, one in Dien Bien, and apparently one or two in Kunming. They are therefore definitely not albino.15 plants out of few hundreds, the odds are not good. They come from a collector in Son La, who got all of them, so I think he found a colony, like the collectors of delenatii album, delenatii dunkel, armeniacum album, jackii album, micranthum album... All of those occur as multiple plants in a specific colony ( and funnily, if canhii is a parvisepalum, that would not be surprising if there are green leafed colonies, as all the other parvis have or had green leafed colonies...).

Dear Braem,

Have you seen plants ( paphiopedilum ) with pigment on the underside of the leaves flowers albino ?

Don't know about Guido, but I did see that with malipoense and micranthum, plant with red pigment, but the flower spike and flower albinistic. However, maybe it was a mutation of the flower SPIKE, which means the next time the plant will be normal. The vinicolor leafed micranthum that I saw in Kunming was stable however, great alba...

On the other side, there are many micranthum 'album' in the trade that are coloratum ( like all those kwangsee album sold worldwide). The leaves are green, but the flowers are coloratum. Many people assume that green leaf = albino, unfortunately it's not true ( except if the parents are albinistic, and they are seedlings of those parents). For the wild plants, it is not so rare to see 'albino' armeniacum ( that's a specific colony of some thousands plants), malipoense, micranthum, tranlienianum, helenae, concolor, wenshanense, and bellatulum plants, but when they bloom, they are typical coloratum forms.

One last comment on your picture, to me the dried flower spike on the first photo is too dark to be green when it was alive... Albinistic plants flower spikes usually dry of a lighter color ( I have experience in buying albino plants out of bloom, and to have been f***ed several times so...).

 

[Marc]

Canhii with green leaves, I have one, there are 2 more in Germany, there are 4 in Taiwan, two more in Japan, those two you pictured, one in Ha Tay, one in Dien Bien, and apparently one or two in Kunming.

Curious how long it will take for the plants in Germany to produce some offspring and come available on the market.

 

[Berthold]

anthocyanins less

it needs the absense of more pigments than anthocyanins to be an alba forma. Anthocyanis are mainly pigments of the leaves not of the flowers

 

[Braem]

In my opinion is a true P.canhii...about being albino...is highly possible but no way to say untill not flowered...take as example the P.jackii albas....a lot around but probably only 4-5 plants are really alba...all others are semi-alba.
But still important plant...seems to have albino gene,and also if will flower with normal colour,the progeny from selfing will produce some albinos...so buy it,flower it,pollinate it and produce albinos from it!!!

There are many pigmented semi-alba or alba flowered. wenshanense,bellatulum,concolor,coccineum,villosum,helenae....this I seen personally,but shurely will be more...but those plants have not to be considered albino forms,but shurely have albino gene inside and can be used to produce pure albino forms.
There is also a strange P.micranthum,with very dark/vinicolor leaves(resembling delenatii vini but different),that have albino o nearly albino flower.

There is no such thing as an "albino gene" ... the colour of plants are controlled by many genes

 

[Braem]

Most likely NOT albino. I have seen it in Vietnam with jackii, micranthum, and delenatii, China with armeniacum, appletonianum, and villosum. When too many plants are collected with leaves lacking the typical red color, they are not albino, but just normal ones, like the jackii 'album' in the trade. Only a few are real alba, and NONE found from the jackii album colony, that's confirmed. Selfing of those will unfortunately not give albinos, it is just a separate colony.

Canhii with green leaves, I have one, there are 2 more in Germany, there are 4 in Taiwan, two more in Japan, those two you pictured, one in Ha Tay, one in Dien Bien, and apparently one or two in Kunming. They are therefore definitely not albino.15 plants out of few hundreds, the odds are not good. They come from a collector in Son La, who got all of them, so I think he found a colony, like the collectors of delenatii album, delenatii dunkel, armeniacum album, jackii album, micranthum album... All of those occur as multiple plants in a specific colony ( and funnily, if canhii is a parvisepalum, that would not be surprising if there are green leafed colonies, as all the other parvis have or had green leafed colonies...).



Don't know about Guido, but I did see that with malipoense and micranthum, plant with red pigment, but the flower spike and flower albinistic. However, maybe it was a mutation of the flower SPIKE, which means the next time the plant will be normal. The vinicolor leafed micranthum that I saw in Kunming was stable however, great alba...

On the other side, there are many micranthum 'album' in the trade that are coloratum ( like all those kwangsee album sold worldwide). The leaves are green, but the flowers are coloratum. Many people assume that green leaf = albino, unfortunately it's not true ( except if the parents are albinistic, and they are seedlings of those parents). For the wild plants, it is not so rare to see 'albino' armeniacum ( that's a specific colony of some thousands plants), malipoense, micranthum, tranlienianum, helenae, concolor, wenshanense, and bellatulum plants, but when they bloom, they are typical coloratum forms.

One last comment on your picture, to me the dried flower spike on the first photo is too dark to be green when it was alive... Albinistic plants flower spikes usually dry of a lighter color ( I have experience in buying albino plants out of bloom, and to have been f***ed several times so...).

I have seen many plants that were suspected to be albinos because some pigments were lacking in the leaves or the inflorescens, and many turned out to be "lightly" coloured normal forms. This discussion can go on for ever. Please note:

If the plant AND the flower show no red or brown pigments, it is an albino
If the flower is PURE white it is an album
And all this can only be decided on when the plant flowers ... so lets wait and see ... (and If I am no longer around, ask my wife where she had me dug in, and come and tell me ... you need not bring any flowers).

 

[Braem]

Curious how long it will take for the plants in Germany to produce some offspring and come available on the market.

usually about three years

 

[cxcanh]

I saw one canhii look the same in the wild and I hope next year it still there with flower.

 

[Berthold]

I have seen many plants that were suspected to be albinos because some pigments were lacking in the leaves or the inflorescens, and many turned out to be "lightly" coloured normal forms. This discussion can go on for ever. Please note:

If the plant AND the flower show no red or brown pigments, it is an albino
If the flower is PURE white it is an album
And all this can only be decided on when the plant flowers ... so lets wait and see ...

Mr. Beam I fully agree.
Its a complete nonsense to deduce from absence of anthocyanins to an alba forma.

 

[Hakone]

There is no such thing as an "albino gene" ... the colour of plants are controlled by many genes

How many genes controlled the colour and where they are located .

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

At least the albinistic genes vary from species to species, which is why crossing 2 albino/alba's will still give normally colored flowers. Sometimes they're the same, which is why crossing alba haynaldianum with alba primulinum gives a green Henrietta Fujiwara. Unfortunately, they are very frequently different, which is why my haynaldianum album x philipinense album gave me colored (although pale) Lebeaudyanum.

 

[valenzino]

There is no such thing as an "albino gene" ... the colour of plants are controlled by many genes

,,,yes,I had to write "genes"...

 

[Hakone]

I assume that albinistic genes is recessiv.

Example:

Haemophilia A (recessive X-linked genetic, carrier mother )

 

[Hakone]

it needs the absense of more pigments than anthocyanins to be an alba forma. Anthocyanis are mainly pigments of the leaves not of the flowers

Anthocyanis are NOT ONLY mainly pigments of the sheets

 

[Hakone]

Mr. Beam I fully agree.
Its a complete nonsense to deduce from absence of anthocyanins to an alba forma.

Dear Sir Berthold,

please tell me, who is Mr. Beam

 

[quietaustralian]

Dear Sir Berthold,

please tell me, who is Mr. Beam

Maybe he meant Mr Bean?

Mick

 

[Berthold]

Dear Sir Berthold,

please tell me, who is Mr. Beam

Hakone please have a look at Google yourself.

 

[Hakone]

Dear Sir Berthold,

you can ONLY search on Google but Google doesn´t know , what you think about " Mr. Beam " :sob:

 

[Ernie]

I assume that albinistic genes is recessiv.

Example:

Haemophilia A (recessive X-linked genetic, carrier mother )

Albinism in orchids is not an example of simple Mendelian genetics (single gene, pure dominance...) in most (all?) cases. We have several threads on the subject. Cases of crosses of two albino parents giving non-albino progeny, etc. Maybe someone a little more adept at using the search function can help out please?