Paph spicerianum

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There is a P. spicerianum in the possession of a prominent Japanese collector that apparently has an unusually flat dorsal (relative, no doubt, to the usual funnel-shape) and I believe that plant is in the ancestry of the cross in question. If there is any basis for questioning whether the Zone's spicerianums are true species plants, it has to be based upon the inclusion of that specific plant in the family tree. To argue that this group is actually hybrid you must first prove that this specific ancestor is a hybrid. That would be difficult, since it is unlikely the owner would be willing to offer his plant for inspection, given its probable value. Certainly, the plant is roundly accepted to be Paph. spicerianum.

The judge himself has declared the staminode as the decisive factor in making his declaration. I won't try to explain his rationale, but that is where he anchored his claim.

The Zone plants don't have what you would call particularly flat dorsals. They may be large, but so are the rest of the floral segments.

Actually, I've talked with nearly everyone concerned, and definitely have heard both sides of the story. The judge who declared the cross to be a hybrid told me months ago that he was writing a paper to clarify and support his position. He deserves credit for that, because he risks being scrutinized at the procedural level. Awards can be granted provisionally, subject to confirmation from an orchid identification center like Selby. Assuming any of the plants were awardable, that might have been the best approach.

Here is I think is a link to the picture of that particular plant that came from Japan which garnered a FCC/JOS. http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~PAPHIO-IN-OKINAWA/aakansai1.htm#label0. You can see that it do have a similar staminode of a spicerianum but I think the pouch and petals are to green.

Ramon:)
 
Candace,

To answer your question, yes it is absolutely a written procedural rule in AOS judging that when the authenticity of a species is in doubt, the award is to be given provisionally pending identification by the Species Identification Task Force of the AOS. The SITF is comprised of 4-5 members who are good at IDing species. If they cannot tell if something is a species, then they are able to request that it be professionally IDed at the time and expense of the exhibitor. A professional identification must be made using a preserved (pickled) flower. Typically, costs for shipping the flower, time allotted to collecting the flower, and the cost of professional IDing (usually $50 or so) is enough to discourage exhibitors from intentionally mis-IDing species.

The problem with this pathway is that sometimes taxonomists make mistakes!! Such is life I guess...but the procedure is definitely there and documented and written down. I'll be very interested to read the report.

Hope this helps clarify a muddy situation...

-Tim
 
OMG, this actually exists? Plant people....way too serious!

There is also a less serious group. I have a plant that received a CHM (which all require taxonomic verification before awarding). I just had to send it in to a single AOS sanctioned taxonomic authority, and it only cost me shipping.

I guess the big guns are pulled out for more serious grievances.
 
SITF is a recent change; Rick's experience is how CHMs and CBRs used to be treated, but it's changed now. It's just a name, and, quite frankly, it's significantly less formal than the certified taxonomist protocol that used to be the case. That's the whole idea, although I agree the name is a little high-falutin.
 
I have tried to hold my tongue. I was actually there when this ridiculous situation occurred. The Judge was Alan Koch. He single handily claimed that these were hybrids. In the write up he based this on the slight variation in leaf width and length. Also a reference to color with green dots-yellow dots in the staminode that I don't agree with. Wild Spicers have these. He also made a claim to have himself spread a hybrid years ago all over. So of course since these were so nice these must have come from this hybrid.LOL. He also claimed to be an expert in taxonomy. I saw hundreds if not over a thousand in bloom with my own eyes. I picked out what I thought were the four best at the time and took them home with me. The point is that the flowers were incredibly uniform. Uniformly great. There was no evidence of this being a hybrid out of over a thousand plants. I looked through them all. I am very curious to see this article and to see how he is going to explain this. He also violated the protocol that Tim correctly described on what a judge is supposed to do if the species label is called into question. They should have gotten a provisional award.
 
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It is an interesting subject, because it puts a sharp focus on the lack of respect on the part of many breeders towards the judging system. To really appreciate the negative effect the events on that night might have on the reputation of the judging system, you first must consider the context.

Growers unfamiliar with our own regional judging here in the Bay Area might question how knowing the grower or breeder of a plant might affect a judge's evaluation of the plant itself. Besides, aren't the judges supposed to be ignorant regarding the ownership of plants? Isn't that what they mean about being impartial? There may have been a small number of judges there that night who didn't instantly recognize the plants as being from the Zone, but you can be certain that they were quickly informed by those who did.

If my copy of OrchidWiz is right, there has never been an AQ awarded to any group of Paph spicerianums. That an AQ is awarded to any line-bred species is rare enough, but to do so for the first time is historic. Lets not pretend that this was just any other monthly judging session. That any group of plants from the Zone are presented is a real rarity. That fact alone made this not just another night. The potential importance of that night made it doubly important that the judges get the job done right, because you can be certain that any group of plants from the Zone had Terry Root's personal approval with respect to quality. These plants were undoubtedly 'the good stuff'.

Apparently there is little debate over whether an AQ would have been granted had the plants not been declared to be hybrids. That implies that there would have been quality awards given to at least some of the individual plants.

I have no problem with someone who wishes to voice his own minority opinions, but I hate to see anyone trying to force such opinions upon the majority. It also leaves me with diminished regard for those would let force of personality overwhelm their own personal judgment. Did anybody even whisper the word 'provisional'? Maybe some of the judges don't particularly like Paphs, and were just itching to go home. Why did they bother to show up, in the first place? Were all the judges with backbones meeting elsewhere?

I think that the AOS needs to take a serious look at the judging system, a system that is deeply in need of reform. I think they need to bridge the gap between what judges want and what breeders are trying to achieve. They can oftentimes be at odds.
 

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