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Paph roth. Mt. Milais

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Bob in Albany N.Y.

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I know that Mt. Milais is awarded and is used alot in breeding. What I don't know is what it is known for? Example? is it know for blooming on small growths (18 inch leaf span or smaller) Is it know mostly for color or shape? Naturally it was awarded so it is a good flower. When they breed with it what are the breeders looking for? Possible blooming on a single growth?

Thanks
 

paphioland

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I know that Mt. Milais is awarded and is used alot in breeding. What I don't know is what it is known for? Example? is it know for blooming on small growths (18 inch leaf span or smaller) Is it know mostly for color or shape? Naturally it was awarded so it is a good flower. When they breed with it what are the breeders looking for? Possible blooming on a single growth?

Thanks
It had excellent shape and color for a collected roth. It imparts those traits as well.. It was not a large roth flower wise however. Hence the logical cross with rex. An added benefit is the compact size which doesn't always come through in the crosses esp with rex
 

Leo Schordje

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LienLiu did a nice paper on rothschildianum, maybe he has his data handy. I am working from memory, perhaps Lien will correct me if I am wrong.

rothschildianum "Mont Milais' FCC/RHS was exhibited by the Eric Young Orchid foundation. It was a large flower, on a large plant, the flower was over 30 cm natural spread. Not small. The plant is not small either. It is famous for it's good size, and BOLD color contrast. Its background is fairly light, close to white and the stripes are deep red-brown. So the visual effect is quite bold. Many roths have a base color that is almost yellow, so the stripes don't pop as much visually. The other thing that really made Mount Milais famous was its owner, EYOF. They knew how to put the plant to good use, and promoted it. They also shared pollen with W. Robert Weltz and with Terry Root and Wharton Sincler. Hence the cross "Rex' x 'Mont Milais'. Rex was the very large collected rothschildianum that belonged to Rex van Delden (at one time Paph breeder at Stewarts Orchids) before he sold it to Orchid Zone.

'Mont Milais' is the clone of choice for a roth with bold colors, good form, large flower and medium large plant habit. Definitely one of the best of the era.

'Borneo' is the clone of rothschildianum that blooms on a small plant, often with just a single flower. 'Borneo' was awarded with a 28 cm flower, which is on the medium - small side for current awards. Colors of markings are very dark, over a butter yellow backgound, so the striping can look almost muddy. A blooming on a multigrowth plant will have 3 or 4 blooms. A good roth, but the new seedlings coming up will be so much better.

'Rex' is one of the most vigorous of the roths, and large too. These traits are passed on to its offspring.

'Janet' is the clone from Lee & Janet Kuhn, a collected plant originally exhibited as Paph elliotianum. This is a very vigorous clone, with a large flower, ~30 cm natural spread, but the petals and dorsal are a little bit narrow. This plant could have become as famous as 'Rex' but was not 'promoted' nor used in breeding as expertly. Then in the mid 1990's an unscrupulous varmint sold divisions of a mediocre roth; deliberately mis-labeled as 'Janet'. So there are a few real divisions floating around, and many more 'fakes' floating around.

Today IMHO the best roths for the 2010 to 2020 generation will be from several of the seedling crosses made by Sam Tsui of the Orchid Inn.

now I need to get back to work.
 

paphioland

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LienLiu did a nice paper on rothschildianum, maybe he has his data handy. I am working from memory, perhaps Lien will correct me if I am wrong.

rothschildianum "Mont Milais' RCC/RHS was exhibited by the Eric Young Orchid foundation. It was a large flower, on a large plant, the flower was over 30 cm natural spread. Not small. The plant is not small either. It is famous for it's good size, and BOLD color contrast. Its background is fairly light, close to white and the stripes are deep red-brown. So the visual effect is quite bold. Many roths have a base color that is almost yellow, so the stripes don't pop as much visually. The other thing that really made Mount Milais famous was its owner, EYOF. They knew how to put the plant to good use, and promoted it. They also shared pollen with W. Robert Weltz and with Terry Root and Wharton Sincler. Hence the cross "Rex' x 'Mont Milais'. Rex was the very large collected rothschildianum that belonged to Rex van Delden (at one time Paph breeder at Stewarts Orchids) before he sold it to Orchid Zone.

'Mont Milais' is the clone of choice for a roth with bold colors, good form, large flower and medium large plant habit. Definitely one of the best of the era.

'Borneo' is the clone of rothschildianum that blooms on a small plant, often with just a single flower. 'Borneo' was awarded with a 28 cm flower, which is on the medium - small side for current awards. Colors of markings are very dark, over a butter yellow backgound, so the striping can look almost muddy. A blooming on a multigrowth plant will have 3 or 4 blooms. A good roth, but the new seedlings coming up will be so much better.

'Rex' is one of the most vigorous of the roths, and large too. These traits are passed on to its offspring.

'Janet' is the clone from Lee & Janet Kuhn, a collected plant originally exhibited as Paph elliotianum. This is a very vigorous clone, with a large flower, ~30 cm natural spread, but the petals and dorsal are a little bit narrow. This plant could have become as famous as 'Rex' but was not 'promoted' nor used in breeding as expertly. Then in the mid 1990's an unscrupulous varmint sold divisions of a mediocre roth; deliberately mis-labeled as 'Janet'. So there are a few real divisions floating around, and many more 'fakes' floating around.

Today IMHO the best roths for the 2010 to 2020 generation will be from several of the seedling crosses made by Sam Tsui of the Orchid Inn.

now I need to get back to work.
I would not consider mm a large flower by any means. It was awarded with a 26 cm NS, 5.5 cm dorsal and 1.5 cm petals. It more commonly blooms around 24cm ns. I have never heard of a large selfing of it either. It is rex that gives rex x mm its size. The only awarded mm x self is a mistake, it is actually rex x mm.

Who will have the best roth crosses? There will be many of them coming from all over. Including the TON and OZ. Sam does not have the level of rex x mm that Terry used in his crosses, I can almost guarantee that. He does however have some nice crosses using some of the TON roths as parents. Lots of private collectors are making great crosses as well. Since you mentioned it, Lien has made some nice crosses. Lien and I also made some nice crosses together and made some by myself. I would not limit where the great crosses are going to come from to the OI exclusively. There are personally many other roth crosses I'd rather have , not to take anything away from the OI they also have nice crosses it just is not exclusive.
 

paphioland

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Terry and Sincler were partners at the time. They did not have pollen they had a division of the plant and used the pollen many times to remake the cross. The OZ then sold their division later on.
 

Leo Schordje

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Thanks. Paphioland, I was working from memory, so I will accept your comments on Mont Milais. As to Orchid Inn, I admit, I have a bias in favor of Sam Tsui. I also have personally visited his greenhouse several times over the years and have seen his rothschildianums. I was truely impressed by his stock. You are correct that there are many private growers making great crosses, and the OZ too. I knew Lien was doing some breeding. I was mostly pointing out that Terry Root and the OZ does not have the 'exclusive lock' on high quality rothschildianum in the USA. I am looking forward to see what these next generations of crosses will bring.
 
P

paphlady

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So Leo, have you ever visited OZ, TON, and many the other people's nurseries and seen their roths in bloom?
 
B

berrywoodson

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Frank Smith had an awesome one in his exhibit at the WOC. I understand that it is a MM selfing.
 
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paphiness

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Both roth 'Atticus' and 'Jim Krull' were on display, and both plants are from the Orchid Zone's Rex x MM cross.

Also, the huge top prize-winning Michael Koopowitz at the K-S exhibit was from the Orchid Zone.

The besseae's under the bridge at the exhibit, and the one that received the best species plant award, were from OZ.
 

paphioland

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Both roth 'Atticus' and 'Jim Krull' were on display, and both plants are from the Orchid Zone's Rex x MM cross.

Also, the huge Michael Koopowitz at the K-S exhibit was from the Orchid Zone.

The besseae's under the bridge at the exhibit, and the one that received the best species plant award, were from OZ.
The St Swithin is also from the OZ

Roth Frank Smith that is listed as mm x self by the aos is a mistake. It is rex x mm.
 

paphioland

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I don't know the backround of the backround of Krull's color magic?
 

paphioland

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Man Frank Grows some crazy multiflorals though. He is an awesome grower obviously. Those plants wouldn't look that good bloomed by someone else. They would still be great though. He pushes those multis to the max of their potential.
 
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paphiness

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I totally agree that Frank Smith is an amazing grower of multifloral orchids (and pretty much everything else).

Actually, I think this touches on the age-old nature vs. nurture question. Rothschildianum breeding and growing is a great example.

There are clearly particular cultivars that possess superior form, color, and size. Breeders hope that these stud plants will pass their superior traits on to their progeny. That's the nature side of the equation.

On the other side is the nurture, or skill of the grower. I'm sure I could take a top OZ or TON roth worth many thousands of dollars, and grow it so that it looks like it's a $50 plant. I would venture that many of us could accomplish that horticultural feat quite easily. But, very few grow with the skill of Krull-Smith or the Orchid Zone.

So to see the best roths (or the result of any breeding), you've got to go to a place with the top genes, and a wide number of plants in bloom from a good year of growing/watering to see the limits of what is possible.
 

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