Paph liemeanum

[GaryB]

I have two liemeanums in bloom, with different looking flowers and foliage and I thought it may be interesting to post some photos for comparison. Plant #1 is from Marriott Orchids, and #2 is an Orchid Zone plant.

First the flowers. #1 has a very green dorsal and is slender and tall. The dorsal speral on #2 is very rounded and darker in color with the red of the petals carrying onto the sepal. I do like the flower proportions on #2.

The leaves on both plants are very different. #1 has thiner leaves

And #2 has wider leaves that are more heavily marked.

Hope you find this comparison interesting.

Gary

 

[likespaphs]

groovy. thanks for posting!

one thing i think is super interesting is it seems that liemianum from europe typically have mottled leaves whereas every one i've seen in the u.s. has plain green leaves

 

[Roy]

The one on the left is a possible liemianum the right one isn't, a hybrid I would think.

 

[John M]

The one on the left is a possible liemianum the right one isn't, a hybrid I would think.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Flower #1 just looks like regular, jungle quality. Flower #2 looks like the result of line breeding. They both look like liemianum to me. I like #2!

 

[GaryB]

I'm not sure I agree with this. Flower #1 just looks like regular, jungle quality. Flower #2 looks like the result of line breeding. They both look like liemianum to me. I like #2!

I think I didn't do the best job of growing #1; it's a division of an awarded plant. The shape on a good blooming looks much more like #2.

If #2 is a hybrid, what else would be in it?

 

[SlipperFan]

I like #2 best also. I think it's liemianum, also.

 

[John M]

It is very hard to believe that #1 is a recently awarded plant....even considering that you may have not brought out it's best qualities with your culture. If it really is an awarded plant, I'd bet that it's an OLD award, before nurseries like OZ began releasing much improved line bred plants. Remember, an FCC from the 1970's will not hold a candle to a plant of the same type that is awarded today. The value of an award is directly proportional to it's age....at least when it comes to popular genera that receive awards on a regular basis.

 

[GaryB]

It was awarded an AM (80 pts) in '99. Here's good bloom. Hard to believe they are the same plant.

 

[likespaphs]

if i were to speculate based on color alone and not size of the flower, i can convince myself i see moquettianum in #2

 

[paphioboy]

Very nice, both of them.. I think both plants look like what is typical for liemianum, although the leaves of No. 1 are kind of on the glaucous side.. No. 1 looks like my primulinum var. purpurascens (labelled as such)..

 

[Roy]

The reason I believe #2 is a hybrid is the burgundy in the dorsal. This is to me NOT part of any true P. liemianum. I know some have color other than the green & white but this is way over the limit. Still I'm open to review my thoughts.

 

[GaryB]

The reason I believe #2 is a hybrid is the burgundy in the dorsal. This is to me NOT part of any true P. liemianum. I know some have color other than the green & white but this is way over the limit. Still I'm open to review my thoughts.

#2 is an Orchid Zone cross, 'Nick' x 'Dark Beauty'. I'll do some checking and see if I can find out anything more about their breeding.

Actually, the difference in the leaves between the two plants raised more of a question than the coloration.

 

[Pete]

i agree with john. the one on the right is just better genetically and much better grown. what is the first one growing in???

 

[GaryB]

i agree with john. the one on the right is just better genetically and much better grown. what is the first one growing in???

It's just in a standard bark mix. I think it had a stretch where it was too dry.

 

[GaryB]

I emailed the person who originally purchased #2 from OZ and who also has a couple of plants that are sibs to this one. He indicated that Terry's grex likely came from Norito Hasegawa due to the prefix on the code. Harold Koopowitz, indicated during a Southern CA judging, said that plants like this one and its sibs are indeed lienianum. The seller's conclusion "Given that Harold and Norito had a business together at one time, I am inclined to think the liemianum is the real deal. " The seller also had a sib to my plant awarded this spring.

It is line-bred and the seller stated that you can select for improved dorsal color intensity.

 

[John M]

I emailed the person who originally purchased #2 from OZ and who also has a couple of plants that are sibs to this one. He indicated that Terry's grex likely came from Norito Hasegawa due to the prefix on the code. Harold Koopowitz, indicated during a Southern CA judging, said that plants like this one and its sibs are indeed lienianum. The seller's conclusion "Given that Harold and Norito had a business together at one time, I am inclined to think the liemianum is the real deal. " The seller also had a sib to my plant awarded this spring.

It is line-bred and the seller stated that you can select for improved dorsal color intensity.

All very plausible. I see no moquetteanum or anything else in this. It's just a GOOD liemianum. After all, godefroyae in the wild doesn't look like the dark ones coming out of Taiwan and other places these days. Carefully selecting breeding plants and line breeding does wondrous things!

Yes, it is REALLY hard to believe that that second photo of #1 really is the same clone as the first photo of #1. If I were you, I'd repot immediately because these flower form/colour results lead me to believe that something is very wrong with your potting mix pH. Either that, or, you are a heavy feeder and when it went dry, the fertilizer salts came out of solution and reached toxic levels on the roots, causing this sort of stunted flowering.

 

[GaryB]

All very plausible. I see no moquetteanum or anything else in this. It's just a GOOD liemianum. After all, godefroyae in the wild doesn't look like the dark ones coming out of Taiwan and other places these days. Carefully selecting breeding plants and line breeding does wondrous things!

Yes, it is REALLY hard to believe that that second photo of #1 really is the same clone as the first photo of #1. If I were you, I'd repot immediately because these flower form/colour results lead me to believe that something is very wrong with your potting mix pH. Either that, or, you are a heavy feeder and when it went dry, the fertilizer salts came out of solution and reached toxic levels on the roots, causing this sort of stunted flowering.

Thanks for the recommendation. I did repot it 2 weeks ago.