Paph hookerae x2

Discussion in 'Paphiopedilum' started by SlipperKing, May 21, 2020 at 9:17 AM.

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  1. May 21, 2020 at 9:17 AM #1

    SlipperKing

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    We have discussed at length the differences between hookerae and volonteanum. Especially when it comes to this particular matting, 'Malingham' x (Joanid x sib) and I've decided to leave these plants as hookerae unless hard evidence to the contrary shows up. It could be the faint maroon pattern on the underside of the leaves of this cross is a result of line breeding. Looking at allot of internet pictures of both species, the notch in the upper center of the staminode for one and not the other is not a constant trait.
    The first one and more mature flower.
    20200520_174251.jpg
    The second one and a little larger one
    20200520_174318.jpg 20200520_174402.jpg

    Some outside shots
    20200520_174804.jpg 20200520_174822.jpg 20200520_174827.jpg
     
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  2. May 21, 2020 at 9:42 AM #2

    dodidoki

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    Very nice!!!What kind of clone are they??
     
  3. May 21, 2020 at 9:46 AM #3

    musa

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    Wow! These are absolut Beauties in comparison to mine. The colour is very intense and the petals are faced forward and strongly spatulated, with nearly no tridentation. I love them.
    Congrats!
     
  4. May 21, 2020 at 10:06 AM #4

    DrLeslieEe

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    Real beauties.

    The larger one is similar to Jokers shape and the smaller one to mine. What are there measurements in natural spread, length of spike and colour of leaf markings (maybe a pic)?

    So far this batch has been consistently producing brightly coloured and well shaped flowers. I suspect that there is a mixture of volonteanum in there to brighten the colour up a bit more than hookerae. The reason I say this is because of three reasons:

    1. the spatulated paddle shape petals with the wide rounded tips have always been synonymous with volonteanums in Asia (which is also much brighter coloured than the hookerae)

    2. The taxonomic differentiation of the underside of leaves is blurred here. There are minor purple streaks and brush strokes on this batch, which ‘pure’ hookerae is not supposed to have.

    3. The staminodal shield with the notches are not constant between all the flowering specimens we have seen to date. It shows a continuation from hookerae to volonteanum and everything in between.

    That said, it’s still a very attractive population and anyone possessing one should be happy with their flowers.

    I am sure the breeder’s intention was to breed the two best flowers and might have inadvertently mixed the two up, with the parents or even the grandparents.
     
  5. May 21, 2020 at 10:23 AM #5

    SlipperKing

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    Maybe in another month if my third hookerae actually continues on to bloom we can compare pics. I'm sure these two will be gone by then. The plant is Dunja x self. It is solid green with a yellowish green color to the upper surface of the leaves not at all like these two with their bluish green leaves. The bud shows no maroon at all, green and white. The stem is all green. I found the clone 'Dunja' on line but it's a terrible blooming so that's no help.
     
  6. May 21, 2020 at 4:14 PM #6

    Guldal

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    Whatever their true origin they are damn good flowers!
     
  7. May 21, 2020 at 10:09 PM #7

    Don I

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  8. May 23, 2020 at 4:09 AM #8

    SlipperKing

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    Here are a few pics of the plants. volonteanum next to the two blooming hookeraes and the underside of the volonteanum leaf.


    N
    20200522_165008.jpg 20200522_165017.jpg
    Next is the underside of one of the hookerae
    20200522_165030.jpg
    The last two are of the third hookerae with no maroon markings
    20200522_165059.jpg 20200522_165136.jpg
     
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  9. May 23, 2020 at 5:08 AM #9

    DrLeslieEe

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    Thanks for the pics.

    From all the posts so far for the hookeraes, two issues are pressing:

    1. it seems like the separation of the two similar species based on underside leaf colours may not be as valid as taxonomists would like. If these are real true hookeraes, then their leaves can and do have these purple pigments as well

    2. There may be an evolution of the two species from a common ancestor and differences are very slight. Volonteanums may just be an ecological form of hookerae that adapted to higher elevations (brighter colours and larger floral parts like petals due to cooler nights) and more sun (purple ‘tanning’).

    Perhaps Olaf can clarify better?
     
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  10. May 23, 2020 at 9:54 AM #10

    monocotman

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    Leslie

    I agree. There is no way that simple variation in pigmentation should be a way of separating species. In most cases it’s just a single gene.

    David
     
  11. May 24, 2020 at 12:26 AM #11

    jokerpass

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    Very nice, loves the intense colour.
    FYI: the Paph hookerae 'Malingham' x (Joanid x sib) I have has a darker leaf and more silvery than the 2 plants slipperking has. It is still blooming :)
     
  12. May 25, 2020 at 8:46 AM #12

    GuRu

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    Rick, you're showing here two extraordinarily pretty flowers. Congrats to own and grow these beauties.

    Leslie, I'm no taxonomist but I would second both of your statements. They sound very logically to me.
     

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