Paph hirsutissimum

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Paphluvr

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Always loved this species (I've grown and bloomed it in the past) but the plant is too big for my present growing conditions. Very nice.
 

Guldal

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Nice flower... mightn't we be in the realm of hirsutissimum var. esquirolei? Or just P. esquirolei?
 

richgarrison

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Nice flower... mightn't we be in the realm of hirsutissimum var. esquirolei? Or just P. esquirolei?
no idea... that differentiation always seemed arbitrary to me based on the examples i've seen... so i just enjoy the purpley passion! if it's also extra hairy, that's a nice thing also :)
 

DrLeslieEe

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no idea... that differentiation always seemed arbitrary to me based on the examples i've seen... so i just enjoy the purpley passion! if it's also extra hairy, that's a nice thing also :)
It’s the esquilorei variety of hirsutissinum.

Nice wide dorsal.

I’ve seen the GM plant and flower and this one looks like it.
 

richgarrison

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It’s the esquilorei variety of hirsutissinum.
Since i invested in Guido's newest epistle, it seemed like a good time to go read it... :)

He reports these differentiating descriptions:

"Preduncle and ovary covered with long hairs (hirsute), humps on the staminodal shield distinctly protruding ....P.hirsutissimum"

"Peduncle and ovary covered with very short hairs, humps on the staminodal shield only slightly protruding.... P. esquirolei"

You can see the confusion amongst us that have only seen maybe 5-10 clones of the plant in person, and close enough with our reading glasses (this one probably the most important ;-) ) to differentiate those features...

Another interesting thing is that Orchid Wiz in its' list of names, lists 'esquirolii' as the spelling for 'esquirolei'. Without knowing where to find the original publications, is tough to find fault, but the name spellings are certainly not consistent.
 

GuRu

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Great flower! 👌 I love this species but it causes a lot of confusion, too.

It’s the esquilorei variety of hirsutissinum.
Nice wide dorsal......
Leslie, sorry to say this, but as far as I can asses this flower by the photo I would more go for P. hirsutissimum. A wide dorsal is a more distinct feature of this than of var. esquirolei. But I won't argue.

.........
"Preduncle and ovary covered with long hairs (hirsute), humps on the staminodal shield distinctly protruding ....P.hirsutissimum"
"Peduncle and ovary covered with very short hairs, humps on the staminodal shield only slightly protruding.... P. esquirolei"
How long must a hair be to be a long hair and how short to be a short hair?
BRAEM writes too in another one of his books about var. esquirolei:
"This geographical race differs from the normal form (P. hirsutissimum) in being more sparsely covered with shorter hairs; narrower and brighter coloured leaves, without any purple in the basal regions of the under surface; and a deep purple dorsal sepal with a green margin."

Rich, you have the plant and what do you think it is?
 
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richgarrison

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More on the same topic from Harold Koopowitz in ' Tropical Slipper Orchids' (2008)

Harold writes..
..."but the difference is difficult to discern unless one has both varieties in flower at the same time for comparison."

This is one of those species where having many clones isn't a regretful thing! :)

I'll photograph this better for future assessment against my other hirsutissimum clones.

For this clone, with my double eye glass technique, I would say that if the hairs were any shorter, one would not consider it hairy at all. So with Guidos' descriptors... yes to esquirolei...
 
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Guldal

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I once had the two species in bloom at the same time... the different lengths of their respective hirsutissiness (hairyness) were quite distinct. The colour of the infloresence of my "plain" hirs was lighter (more in a greenish direction); the esquirolei (this spelling is from Averyanov, Cribb et al. in their seminal monography on The Slipper Orchids of Vietnam - I guess, they should know) of a very dark colour. But I don't know, if this, too, is a distinguishing trait, or was just by coincidence.

In my experience esquiroleis have overall had the larger flowers, but Rudolf might be right about the size of the dorsal relative to the flower in total for hirsutissimum? Any input from someone with a more specialized knowledge of these varities?

This discussion of the discernability of the plants in question, by the way, I think, for once should make it crystal clear, that it here makes sense to talk of two varities of the same species, not two distinct species in their own right!
 

richgarrison

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I once had the two species in bloom at the same time... the different lengths of their respective hirsutissiness (hairyness) were quite distinct. The colour of the infloresence of my "plain" hirs was lighter (more in a greenish direction); the esquirolei (this spelling is from Averyanov, Cribb et al. in their seminal monography on The Slipper Orchids of Vietnam - I guess, they should know) of a very dark colour. But I don't know, if this, too, is a distinguishing trait, or was just by coincidence.

In my experience esquiroleis have overall had the larger flowers, but Rudolf might be right about the size of the dorsal relative to the flower in total for hirsutissimum? Any input from someone with a more specialized knowledge of these varities?

This discussion of the discernability of the plants in question, by the way, I think, for once should make it crystal clear, that it here makes sense to talk of two varities of the same species, not two distinct species in their own right!
seems like a good taxonomic forum topic... especially since Braem only discusses the hairiness and staminodal shield bumpiness in his most recent book...
 

KateL

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Wow. The greenhouse is rockin‘ at Rich’s! A lot of good plants in bloom there.:D
 

richgarrison

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Wow. The greenhouse is rockin‘ at Rich’s! A lot of good plants in bloom there.:D
Thanx Kate and all... i finally got the energy to setup the back drop and run plants back and forth.... :) warm weather certainly helps in that regard
 
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