Paph hermanii 'Diane'

Slippertalk Orchid Forum

Help Support Slippertalk Orchid Forum:

B

bench72

Guest
Hi folks,

is there any update on the status of this 'species'/'hybrid'?



and here is a close up with details of the staminoidal shield



so hybrid or new species? and if I cross this with say ummm.. a barbigerum, would it be accepted no matter if it is a hybrid or a species?

thanks
tim
 
G

goldenrose

Guest
Looks like a nice one!
:confused: was there a question regarding it as a species? I haven't heard otherwise. If you cross it with anything but another hermanii, it will definitely be a hybrid! As long as RHS considers it a species on it's own, there shouldn't be a problem.
 

Lance Birk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
182
Reaction score
1
bench72,

Couild you please list the dimensions of your plant, i.e., overall leaf span and the average leaf diameter?

P. herrmannii is listed as a "natural hybrid" by Averynov, Cribb, et al, as well as by the RHS. In breeding it will be treated same as a species.

In my book I list it as a true species. Although it is variable (mostly in plant size and dimensions, rather than flower characteristics) the flowers are quite consistent with yours. The surmised 'parents' of this plant do not support the reality of this flower. It occurs over a rather large area and is found in quantity, something that those VERY RARE plants that may in fact actually be true natural hybrids do not do.

Do you have something specific in mind for your cross? ...P. barbigerum?

Personally, I'd like to see it crossed with something entirely different, .........we already have way too much confusion in our species these days. No need to muck them up any further. ...........my 2 cents.
 
B

bench72

Guest
Thanks for the nice comments everyone...

Lance Birk said:
dimensions of your plant, i.e., overall leaf span and the average leaf diameter?
leaf span is 19cm... the two leaves between the flower are both 1.6cm wide.

flower stem height is 14cm

petal tip to tip is 6.8cm, petals 2cm wide.

dorsal width 4cm, height 3cm

pouch height 3.5cm

these dimensions are taken at widest or longest points...

lance birk said:
P. herrmannii is listed as a "natural hybrid" by Averynov, Cribb, et al, as well as by the RHS. In breeding it will be treated same as a species.

Do you have something specific in mind for your cross? ...P. barbigerum?
I think generally they say it is a hybrid between hirsutissimum and henryanum... which is strange because it has no spots as per henryanum or nowhere as much hair as hirsutissimum... and from the dozen or so I have seen, I've found them to be pretty consistent with the flower characteristic as you've mentioned.

I think you might be right with crossing it with barbigerum... so maybe with the dianthum(???) or if I learn how to save pollen with a phil var. roebelenii that is in low sheath stage... or in a non primary vein, maybe with an albino(?) maudiae-type hybrid...

lance birk said:
In my book...
one of my favourites even though there are only three paph philippinense pictures and we are subjected to a picture of you in short shorts :poke:

cheers
tim
 

Lance Birk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
182
Reaction score
1
Tim,

Thanks for those data. I have seen well grown, blooming plants of this species with leaves even smaller than your plant, as well as with leaf spans of over a foot across and nearly an inch wide. Flowers are all very similar in size and coloration to yours, stem length as well.

You've helped me confirm my answers about this species, thanks.

Can you give any details about the exact origin of yours? The small ones I've seen are from one seed pod with an uncertain origin, the others are from a selfing made by a dealer from Taiwan.

As for making a hybrid, ......take your choice. I'd rather see a sib-selfing. If you can't find another clone let me know ASAP and I'll send you pollen. A cross with roebelinii might be nice.

..................and what's this about my shorts? You ever been up around Darwin, climbing mountains, falling off cliffs and fighting alligators and snakes...... in the summertime?

.........are you looking at my first book?

And by the way, where do you live in Oz, and do you have a greenhouse or are your plants outside? Nice score on that P. dianthum!

LB
 
B

bench72

Guest
You've helped me confirm my answers about this species, thanks.
glad to be of assistance :)

lance birk said:
Can you give any details about the exact origin of yours?
this was from a flask obtained in Vietnam... unfortunately, I am not privy to any more information than that...

lance birk said:
..and what's this about my shorts? You ever been up around Darwin, climbing mountains, falling off cliffs and fighting alligators and snakes...... in the summertime?
I must admit I have never been to Darwin.. and i dunno, there's just doesn't seem to be that need or wish to visit it either...

I have been to the philippines and singapore, but no alligators to fight there.

lance birk said:
... first book?
second edition... Paph Grower's Manual...

lance birk said:
where do you live in Oz, and do you have a greenhouse or are your plants outside? Nice score on that P. dianthum!
my plants and I live in Sydney, Australia! (the most beautiful city in the whole world :D ... though a tad rainy lately)

Alas, no greenhouse, just an east facing patio... the plants are subjected to lows of 7 celsius and highs of 40 celsius... the Paphs do ok, but the Bulbophyllums don't like it! Hopefully the dianthum likes it too and it's not just a last effort attempt at survival of the species...

cheers
tim
 

Lance Birk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
182
Reaction score
1
Thanks for the update, Tim. Much appreciated.

But after spending a coupla months in Coolangata.......I just gotta disagree about Sydney!
 
B

bench72

Guest
it's all about the angle Todd ;-)

Eric, sorry.. but can you repeat that please :poke:

Lance, the Gold Coast... hmmm, the beaches are ok, the town a bit geared towards tourists with all those koalas and kangaroo for sale in nearly every shop, but west of the town I admit are lovely bush country..
 
B

bench72

Guest
Bump - sorry to be bumping this, but I'm trying to load my plant list onto the new Orchidwiz Journal and for some strange reason this species/hybrid doesn't exist in there... so what is the go? Does the RHS still not recognise that this exist?
 
K

Kavanaru

Guest
bench, taht's a lovely plant! (looking forward to seeing mine opening both buds :) I am waiting and waiting and waiting)... my plant (3 growth) is rather smaller than your: LS 12 cm.

As for my understanding on the status of Paph. xherrmannii it is a natural hybrid between helenae and hirsutissimum (artificial hybrids betweenn henryanum and hirsutissimum seem to be different than xhermannii and also have the spots on the dorsal). However, it seems to be a very well stablished population which could grant it the status of species originated from natural hybridization (something similar to the case Catasetum xtapiriceps - which by the way, has been accepted to be better adapted to the local environment than the two parent species!)

There are two hybrids registered in RHS: Paph. Wössner Minibraun (x Paph schoseri - 2003) and Paph Wössner Minikuli (guess teh other parent!:) - 2008), both registered by Franz Glanz... so, I think they indeed accept it as a valid taxon for registration
 
B

bench72

Guest
hmmm... my bad, i've been spelling this name wrong... it's double rr & double nn, ie herrmannii

and Orchidwiz does have it... aaaah.. i'm enjoying this software more and more...
 
Top