Paph. godefroyae angthong

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peter.orchid

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Hello,
my paph. godefroyae angthong is flowering.
The flower is only 4 cm wide.
But I have a macro-objective!

Peter

paphgodefroyaeangthong.jpg
 
Great flower!!! but I am confused by the naming!? Is it (niveum) angthong or a cross between godefroyae and angthong? Or is godefroyae anthong a valid var. of the species? Jean
 
Hello,
The flower is only 4 cm wide.
But I have a macro-objective!

Peter

Oh, hidden agenda, eh!?

Great flower!!! but I am confused by the naming!? Is it (niveum) angthong or a cross between godefroyae and angthong? Or is godefroyae anthong a valid var. of the species? Jean

good question! :eek:
 
C'mon people, do your research!

There is no such thing as "P. ang thong."
P. godefroyae is a valid species.
Ang Thong (Koh) is an Island.

Does ANYone read books anymore?
 
C'mon people, do your research!

There is no such thing as "P. ang thong."
P. godefroyae is a valid species.
Ang Thong (Koh) is an Island.

Does ANYone read books anymore?

:)

Not keen to lead a large taxonomic discussion here because I don't know enough in this domaine, but the basic question was: what is godefroyae angthong? var. of the species? or form of the species or just a commercial name?

EDIT => isn't that cool, orchids professionals ! ? => http://www.shop.schwerter-orchideenzucht.de/paph-niveum-angthong-niveumalba-orchideen-4077.html ENDEDIT

and I have bought over the last few years in Germany one angthong alba (in bud now) and several niveum Ang thong's! so my question is still not answered!

While googling for Ang Thong you will find interesting results about a province, a town and a group of islands in/near Thailand so....

Jean
 
My plant was labelled as Paphiopedilum niveum. But it is more
purple spotted than purple dotted as Paph. niveum should be.
Reading the book "The genus paphiopedilum" by Phillip Cribb,
I found my plant on page 117. Cribb had studied several plants
from the Ang Thong Islands and compared with Paph. niveum and
Paph. godefroyae and he came to the conclusion that P x ang thong
should be included within Paph. godefroyae.
Peter
 
The flower pictured on pg. 117 in Cribb's 2nd edition paph book may or may not be as labeled. We did find a very few plants without spots on the pouch of those P. godefroyae paphiopedilums from the Gulf of Siam near Koh Ang Thong, but there were no more than 3 or 4 specimens. The painting on pg. 115 is very typical of P. godefroyae from the Gulf, especially those found circa Koh Ang Thong.

Pg. 116 of his 2nd edition book shows a typical P. leucochilum from the Indian Ocean side of Thailand.

Phil Cribb never saw either of these species in situ, he only studied dead, brown, dried out, insect-eaten and fungi-damaged specimens. I spent time in both locations and I examined live plants in flower. While he doesn't seem to be able to tell the difference, I can.

In addition, while taxonomists (and myself, earlier) believed P. godefroyae is a result of past hybridization with P. niveum, we never saw any evidence of that white-flowered species anywhere within the Gulf of Siam, or from the surrounding land areas. P. godefroyae, to me, is a species with several variable yet distinct genetic traits quite different from P. leucochilum (which has its own distinct and variable characteristics).

The Ang Thong Archipelago is a group of hundreds of islands (some quite tiny) and the named island is the hiding place for ancient pirates who preyed on merchants ships which offered trade with Bangkok. The name is a convenient marker location for sailors as well as land-based merchants, thus it is easily assumed that traders could easily call plants by the name of a well-know site.

I disagreed with Dr. Fowlie at the time when he changed his mind and accepted the name "ang thong" and I still do.
 
The flower pictured on pg. 117 in Cribb's 2nd edition paph book may or may not be as labeled. We did find a very few plants without spots on the pouch of those P. godefroyae paphiopedilums from the Gulf of Siam near Koh Ang Thong, but there were no more than 3 or 4 specimens. The painting on pg. 115 is very typical of P. godefroyae from the Gulf, especially those found circa Koh Ang Thong.

Pg. 116 of his 2nd edition book shows a typical P. leucochilum from the Indian Ocean side of Thailand.

Phil Cribb never saw either of these species in situ, he only studied dead, brown, dried out, insect-eaten and fungi-damaged specimens. I spent time in both locations and I examined live plants in flower. While he doesn't seem to be able to tell the difference, I can.

In addition, while taxonomists (and myself, earlier) believed P. godefroyae is a result of past hybridization with P. niveum, we never saw any evidence of that white-flowered species anywhere within the Gulf of Siam, or from the surrounding land areas. P. godefroyae, to me, is a species with several variable yet distinct genetic traits quite different from P. leucochilum (which has its own distinct and variable characteristics).

The Ang Thong Archipelago is a group of hundreds of islands (some quite tiny) and the named island is the hiding place for ancient pirates who preyed on merchants ships which offered trade with Bangkok. The name is a convenient marker location for sailors as well as land-based merchants, thus it is easily assumed that traders could easily call plants by the name of a well-know site.

I disagreed with Dr. Fowlie at the time when he changed his mind and accepted the name "ang thong" and I still do.

thank you, Lance,
for further information about my Paph. godefroyae. I hope you accept this
name for my plant. Cribb wrote that Paph. godefroyae fall within the range of variations in floral characters.
Paph. leucochilum as shown on page 116 has a white unspotted pouch and maybe a different habitat?
I love these Paphiopedilums and have bought some seedlings of Paph. godefroyae var leucochilum.
It is very interesting to hear that you have examined living plants in flower,
that is the best method of research.
Peter
 
Paph ang-thong is listed in the RHS register as synonym for Paph Greyi (godefroyae x niveum) ! Jean

Fowlie stated that plants from the Ang Thong Islands are Paph. godefroyae,
but in 1977 he changed his mind and described Paph. x ang-thong as a
natural hybrid of Paph. godefroyae and niveum.
But Cribb (and Dr. Braem too) suggested that Paph. x ang-thong should be
included within Paph. godefroyae (The Genus Paphiopedilum, page 118).
Peter
 
The flower pictured on pg. 117 in Cribb's 2nd edition paph book may or may not be as labeled. We did find a very few plants without spots on the pouch of those P. godefroyae paphiopedilums from the Gulf of Siam near Koh Ang Thong, but there were no more than 3 or 4 specimens. The painting on pg. 115 is very typical of P. godefroyae from the Gulf, especially those found circa Koh Ang Thong.

Pg. 116 of his 2nd edition book shows a typical P. leucochilum from the Indian Ocean side of Thailand.

Phil Cribb never saw either of these species in situ, he only studied dead, brown, dried out, insect-eaten and fungi-damaged specimens. I spent time in both locations and I examined live plants in flower. While he doesn't seem to be able to tell the difference, I can.

In addition, while taxonomists (and myself, earlier) believed P. godefroyae is a result of past hybridization with P. niveum, we never saw any evidence of that white-flowered species anywhere within the Gulf of Siam, or from the surrounding land areas. P. godefroyae, to me, is a species with several variable yet distinct genetic traits quite different from P. leucochilum (which has its own distinct and variable characteristics).

The Ang Thong Archipelago is a group of hundreds of islands (some quite tiny) and the named island is the hiding place for ancient pirates who preyed on merchants ships which offered trade with Bangkok. The name is a convenient marker location for sailors as well as land-based merchants, thus it is easily assumed that traders could easily call plants by the name of a well-know site.

I disagreed with Dr. Fowlie at the time when he changed his mind and accepted the name "ang thong" and I still do.


I think
1. P.godefroyae should be called for those found in gulf of Siam
2. P.leucochilum should be called for those found in Andaman sea (for both clear pouch and spotted pouch)
3. P.angthong should be called instead of a var. of other species.

They are so much different.
Thai grower who knows nothing about taxonomy is able to specify the differences.

Like you know garlic is not onion
lime is not lemon

:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:
 
They are so much different.
Thai grower who knows nothing about taxonomy is able to specify the differences.

Like you know garlic is not onion
lime is not lemon

:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:

... it is true that often people who can see things growing and alive can notice things that might not seem apparent for someone looking at dried up material. I had quite a discussion with a friend about native orchids here that are a mix of different species at one time and resemble many other things but are grouped together. I told him that no matter if they all have the same species name given to them they aren't the same thing. someone looking at two plants in nature can tell that they aren't the same, though they have been given the same name
 

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