Paph. fairrieanum 'Vinh Huy Nguyen' FCC/AOS

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emydura

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Thanks John. Hate is a strong word with very negative connotations. I choose not to use it casually.
Unless there is dissent from the other Aussies, that flower and plant would not be awarded here. To get an FCC here it has to be exceptional in every way. No exceptions. The stem and size would be major detractors, which I understand would 'disqualify' the flower. 'Size + stem habit + arrangement' are 33.3 points here. Shape =33.3. Colour + texture=33.3.
I dont argue that it doesn't have 'value'. It may be a true miniature and useful for breeding etc etc Lets see it bloom again.
I agree with everything you say Stephen. If my daughter uses the word 'hate', I'll have a stern word with her. It is way too strong a word to use in a conversation such as this.

It definitely wouldn't get an FCC here. It does seem much harder to get an FCC award in Australia then the US despite the fact that 85 points will get you an FCC here. They are only handed out sparingly in this country. In some years you will not see a single orchid get an FCC award in Australia. To me to be deserved of an FCC award means that the flower is better than anything that has been awarded before. Not the same but better. It has to take the species or hybrid to a new level. I see too many AOS FCC awards where I think I have seen better. When I see an FCC awarded plant I expect to be blown away. I think you devalue the award when you give a plant such as this an FCC. It is more of a novelty flower, not a superior form of the species.


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I tend to disagree that "It [an FCC], says that every thing about the flower is 'remarkable'". Everything but size could be remarkable and the point score should reflect all that...the good and the bad......and if the average still reaches 90 points, then it is still an FCC quality flower. Theoretically, a plant could get a core of 0 for size and still get an FCC, if it gets a perfect score on everything else. I doubt this flower got much of a score for size; but, the other characteristics scored high enough to put it up to 90 points....= FCC.
Given the flower size is smaller than just an average fairreanum, the judges would surely have had to score 0 for size which would mean they would have had to consider all the other traits were perfect.
 

gonewild

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If you read the award text you will realize that they did not discount points for size or condition of the plant. The award was given based on the small size.

Read the last sentence of the award text "awarded for it's balance of miniature size in relation to the size of plant and it's exquisite charm and form."

As a miniature it surely does deserve the FCC. But where is the evidence that it is a natural genetic miniature and not chemically induced or a hybrid. If someone has been selective breeding fairreanums to miniature size they have kept a good secret until now. So who takes credit as breeder of the new minis?????

Personally I like the plant and flower very much but would like to know if it is miniature or not. Judges should have passed it and waited to see it as an older plant.
 

Migrant13

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Lance you make some good points. Seems like the miniature size was part of the appeal. I really like this one and can see why it was awarded.
 

John M

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This is an interesting discussion. Thanks. I am coming around to the notion that this plant should not have been pointed in the first place. Generally, I have historically hated.....Ooops,....I "disliked" when the judges say "bring it back next year", when they decide that the plant is not putting out it's best effort, because technically, they're not supposed to be judging the plant, only the flower.

Even though I've said I like this flower very much, I do think that this plant is a very good example of why cut flowers should not be submitted for judging and why plant health/condition should be included in what helps judges decide if a plant even deserves to be pointed in the first place. If cut flowers were not allowed....and whether or not a plant was strong and in good health, were factors in deciding if a flower should be pointed, people would be encouraged to be better growers and not waste anybody's time with inferior plants, regardless of whether or not they have superior flowers. After all, while the judges are not in control, what's the point in awarding a plant that looks like it is likely to not survive for long after the judging?

I suggest that a plant like this, with a beautiful but, small flower and on an abnormally short stem, produced by an inferior plant, should be given an "honorable mention for future potential". Such a thing does not exist. I think it should...as a means to be encouraging to growers. It would recognise and point out that the judges see something special and potential; but, the plant has not quite proven itself yet and it needs more good quality cultivation to see if it will improve and become true award quality. Since this would be said to the owner without the plant being pointed, it's not actually an award and there would be no "award payment" required. However, it would be a good way, on a personal level, for the judges to recognise a plant and encourage the owner to work on improving it's cultivation in order to see if truly awardable qualities can be brought out.

I also agree that it is time for the judging system to be expanded to include a sub-category for recognising high quality, miniatures where a "normal" sized version existed first. A lot of growers value and want to own miniature plants and a lot of breeders are working on producing some really beautiful miniature plants. It could be called the "Bantam class". This category would need a separate set of rules/guidlines, so that miniatures are not compared to other normal-sized plants. Having the potential of winning a BFCC/AOS (Bantam First Class Certificate), would encourage breeders to put in the time and money in an effort to create excellence in a miniature version of many popular normal sized plants. I think promoting miniatures in important. In this day and age of high energy costs making greenhouse bench space a lot more valuable and the high cost of shipping, superior quality miniatures would fill a growing demand for both pot plants and hobbyist-collector, exhibition plants.
 

gonewild

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Even though I've said I like this flower very much, I do think that this plant is a very good example of why cut flowers should not be submitted for judging and why plant health/condition should be included in what helps judges decide if a plant even deserves to be pointed in the first place. If cut flowers were not allowed....and whether or not a plant was strong and in good health, were factors in deciding if a flower should be pointed, people would be encouraged to be better growers and not waste anybody's time with inferior plants, regardless of whether or not they have superior flowers. After all, while the judges are not in control, what's the point in awarding a plant that looks like it is likely to not survive for long after the judging?
Good points. I would add that plant health and condition should be considered when an FCC award is given. The FCC implies that the genetics of the plant are of the highest quality....not just the flower. After all plants that are awarded FCCs are very valuable as breeding plants. An important part of breeding is plant vigor not just flower beauty. Using this mini fairreanum as example... It now can be assumed to be the best mini fairreanum in the World. It's pollen is very valuable because of the name and award. But if the plant is genetically weak and as some suggest be dead soon then genetically it is not a good choice to breed with other than as a short step forward in the line of miniatures.
 

PaphMadMan

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Wow. I didn't anticipate "haters gotta hate" getting such a strong reaction. That perhaps demonstrates the connotation of the phrase as well as anything. Once someone has a negative reaction, reasoned or not, it may be unlikely to change their mind. It may be used with humorous intent (as it was here), simple resignation to reality, or in dismissive frustration, but much more rarely with true rancor or malice. I'm sorry some found it objectionable. Much more was read into it than I intended.
 

Tio Mister

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Where does it state in the standards that the stem has to be long? It is required that the stem be strong and that it holds the flower well above foliage .

Again, it seems that we (notice the first person) are trying to impose a size/proportion standard to what is a minuscule plant . A longer stem would have broken with the overall proportion that the judges that granted the FCC/AOS stated it was one of the primary reasons they recognized the plant for.

Would I have judged? I am happy I was not there .
 
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emydura

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Like Australia, the AOS does have a category for 'Award of Distinction' (AD). Wouldn't this be better suited for such an award? It seems to satisfy people's need to award miniature breeding. A grower in our society had a Paph given an AD where the petals fused into a pouch. I forget the term for it. It is not the sort of thing you give a quality award for but the AD category enables you to recognise it.

http://www.orchidsaustralia.com/award_display.asp?award=4261


AD (Award of Distinction)

Awarded once to a cross representing a worthy new direction in Breeding. The award is granted unanimously without scoring by the judging team assigned.
 
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