Paph curtisii

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dodidoki

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Very nice dark curtisii.I only wonder if it is separate sp. or veriety of superbiens.I think these ones are very different.Many thanks.
Istvan
 

SlipperKing

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Wonder no more. Its a separate species.
It is very dark, the whole flower in fact. I looked in OrchidPro for awarded curtisii, of course, its under superbiens, variety of. None came close to the color intensity as this one and last one awarded was 2016.
I'm going to do a repot and try boosting it to clump up more then 3 growths before take to judging.
 
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GuRu

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SlipperKing

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Rick, I won't argue about this lovely flower and its impressive dark colouration. 👌


But I'm not so sure with this statement....and if Eric's post wasn't fun....we are two.



At least not for Kew Science, they list it as synonym to Paph. superbiens
Hopefully Rudolf this issue will finally be laid to rest in a publication in the near future. Dr. Harold Koopowitz saw the REAL SUPERBIENS at our local society meeting a few years ago (pre SARS). He was floored by the plant and flower. We had a nice conversation and
I forwarded my pics to him. There has been at least one other posting on the net of a real superbiens by a private hobbyist.
Somebody has got to write an article, "The Rediscovery of Paph superbiens ". Dr Jack Fowlie wrote rediscoveres all the time.
 
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GuRu

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Hopefully Rudolf this issue will finally be laid to rest in a publication in the near future. Dr. Harold Koopowitz saw the REAL SUPERBIENS at our local society meeting a few years ago (pre SARS). He was floored by the plant and flower. We had nice conversation and
I forwarded my pics to him. There has been at least one other posting on the net of a real superbiens by a private hobbyist.
Somebody has got to write an article, "The Rediscovery of Paph superbiens ". Dr Jack Fowlie wrote rediscoveres all the time.

Rick, I agree there is a lot of confusion regarding to these two species/varieties. I've got the impression that sometimes even taxonomist don't know exactly which is which. You mentioned Dr. H. Koopowitz - a highly estimated taxonomist - and I don't know whether you own his book 'Tropical Slipper Orchids (Paphiopedilum and Phragmipedium Species and Hybrids) ? I own the issue of 2008 and ond page 117 and 118 he described the characteristics and differences between Paph. superbiens var. superbiens and Paph. superbiens var. curtisii. Almost all what he wrote about var. superbiens, even the photos of a flower on page 118 fits to your flower. Proportions, shape and stance of the pictured flower match to the flower of your plant. The only exception is the colouration of the dorsal, in his photo it is whitish with green and purple stripes and the one of your plant is dark. To my confusion (and maybe this will also confuse others) he shows next to this photos another photo of and album flower with almost the same proportions, shape and stance.....but named this plant Paph. superbiens var. curtisii 'La Tuillerie' ?
I scanned this page in and I hope I will have courtesy of Dr. Koopowitz, this been shown here.
®'Tropical Slipper Orchids (Paphiopedilum and Phragmipedium Species and Hybrids) by Dr. Harold Koopowitz 2008 page 118
Tropical Slipper Orchids_H.Koopowitz_page 118.jpg

A typical Pah. curtissi is the one in my thread of last year Paph. superbiens var. curtisii and Paph. superbiens ???
 
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SlipperKing

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Harold's book, which I have, predates the rediscovery of superbiens so IMHO all the written material will need to be redone. If the experts see to do so, time will tell. I see enough differences between the two flora to separate them as distinct species. Everyone has their own opinion and rightly so.
After my conversation with Dr Koopowitz I'm under the impression he sees two distinct species as well. From your link above it appears Olaf has the same opinion of two species. I personally have no confusion over these two.
 

GuRu

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Harold's book, which I have, predates the rediscovery of superbiens so IMHO all the written material will need to be redone. If the experts see to do so, time will tell. I see enough differences between the two flora to separate them as distinct species. Everyone has their own opinion and rightly so.
After my conversation with Dr Koopowitz I'm under the impression he sees two distinct species as well. From your link above it appears Olaf has the same opinion of two species. I personally have no confusion over these two.
Rick, don't get me wrong, I also see differences between these two plants. I'm no expert enough whether they shoulb be classified as two varieties or two species. I only wanted to point that your shown flower looks very close to var. superbiens in the book of H. Koopowitz and also what I know as var. superbiens.
 

Happypaphy7

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Perhaps only chromosome counts will confirm?
It has rather a different flower shape than most I've seen so far but the leaves are almost the same as other plants I've seen.
Beautiful leaves. Some has darker green leaves with more checkered pattern than this. I prefer this type of leaves much more!
Where did the plant come from by the way? Maybe the original breeder might be able to shed more light on the plant. They might have more of this variety and if they all show evenly similar flower to this one, then, it may serve as yet more support in saying this is indeed a separate species or variety rather than a unique individual case.
 

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