Paph Berenice album

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emydura

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First flowering seedling from Sam Tsui. This is the first multi-floral I have managed to flower from flask. It did have 3 flowers but unfortunately the 2nd flower opened up and quickly wilted for some reason. The third flower is a bit deformed as well. But still, I am quite happy with it.

Paph. Berenice album (philippinense var. album 'Jeanie's Delight' AM/AOS x lowii var. album 'Albino Beauty' CHM/AOS)


Berenice%20alba.jpg



Berenice%20alba%20plant.jpg
 

GuRu

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I flowered one of these, too, David. The pink blushing on the petals is nice.
But the pink blushing on the petals means to be no 'album' ....... Nice flowers anyway, David. 👍
 

emydura

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But the pink blushing on the petals means to be no 'album' ....... Nice flowers anyway, David. 👍
Yes, there is a bit of red pigment. You can see at the top of the petals there are all these tiny red spots. So yes, not a full album. So is it common when you cross two album parents the offspring are not albums?
 

GuRu

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........ So yes, not a full album. So is it common when you cross two album parents the offspring are not albums?
David, at any rate it is possible....but don't ask me about the frequency.
 

DirGo

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David, at any rate it is possible....but don't ask me about the frequency.
I am no botanist/biochemist, so please allow for some errors in my "Fred Flintstone simple reply". To the best of my knowledge:

The biosynthetic pathway to create red pigment in plants requires at least 6 steps.
If a plant cannot perform any of these 6 steps it will fail in producing the red pigment in the end and will be albino. If two parents are albino for different broken steps (e.g. one cannot perform step 2 and the other cannot perform step 4) , with mixing genes their offspring could inherent a full working pathway that can perform all 6 steps. To my understanding this why a cross between two albino parent CAN produce a non-albino offspring if parents are not deficient in the same step. I have seen this happen is various albino x albino crosses.

If any botanist/biochemist on this forum wants to add or correct me, please feel free... I would love to learn more on the topic. I find it hard to find more information online on this subject
 

Hilmar

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hi, last year flowered Berenice with albino parents, pictures attached. But I have also seen several plants with red influence, that you have more than often if crossing two albino parents,
one picture with, one picture without flashlight
 

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  • p. Berenice `Alba` 30.JPG
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    p. Berenice `Alba` 33.JPG
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Guldal

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Yes, there is a bit of red pigment. You can see at the top of the petals there are all these tiny red spots. So yes, not a full album. So is it common when you cross two album parents the offspring are not albums?
When one hasn't seen the clone in question in flower, one is always participating in the great genetic lottery.

It was the same with my Catt. intermedia (Flamea x Dwarf) from Sam. I like it a lot, but draw a blank, when it came to the flamea trait.
Istvan and Leslie provided the following explanations, that I think hold true in relation to the (non)albinism of your Berenice, David:
.As i know, flamea type is dominant, flamea parent propaply was heterozygous, your plant got the normal gene.

Jens, this is one of the case when the flamea genes did not express in flower. It may hold the recessive genes though.

You can see the thread in toto here:
 

GuRu

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.........To my understanding this why a cross between two albino parent CAN produce a non-albino offspring if parents are not deficient in the same step. I have seen this happen is various albino x albino crosses......
Dirk, these were/are also my thoughts. But because I didn't see it in reality I didn't write about it.
 
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I am no botanist/biochemist, so please allow for some errors in my "Fred Flintstone simple reply". To the best of my knowledge:

The biosynthetic pathway to create red pigment in plants requires at least 6 steps.
If a plant cannot perform any of these 6 steps it will fail in producing the red pigment in the end and will be albino. If two parents are albino for different broken steps (e.g. one cannot perform step 2 and the other cannot perform step 4) , with mixing genes their offspring could inherent a full working pathway that can perform all 6 steps. To my understanding this why a cross between two albino parent CAN produce a non-albino offspring if parents are not deficient in the same step. I have seen this happen is various albino x albino crosses.

If any botanist/biochemist on this forum wants to add or correct me, please feel free... I would love to learn more on the topic. I find it hard to find more information online on this subject
Diego, you are completely right on this. There may well be much More complicated than you suggest but the basic reasoning is correct. As well as failing to produce any pigment, it’s possible that some alba mutations may produce a tiny bit of pigment in the right circumstances, ie when other genes are present. So expression of this trait may depend on other genes being absent or present. This is why you sometimes see very pale coloured plants and also pure albas like Hilmar’s.
 
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