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Thanks, guys, for the support I've gotten in this thread after LB's first post. It means a lot to me and I can't express how grateful I am to have friends that I have made here vouch for me after having been maliciously insulted in a place where I feel at home.

--Stephen
 
Lance Birk said:
Unfortunately, John, you don’t get it. You just missed the entire point of my message. This isn’t about you, or about Stephan Manza, or about any other personality. This is about orchids.

I am not going to pretend that your purpose for posting was an attempt to further discussion about orchid care, and neither should you. Your self-glorifying rant against Stephen's criticism had more to do with patting yourself on the back. I recognize bull**** when I see it Mr. Birk.

Lance Birk said:
Maybe I am mistaken, but I was under the impression this Forum was a place to discuss matters concerning best methods of orchid growing, and a place where beginners can learn how to stop killing them. Perhaps you, too, fail to understand that my book explains things such as why, exactly, air movement is so important, what, exactly, happens when you water, and why, exactly, orchids need good light, in a way that no other author ever did, so why would anyone want to recommend against it?

I think Stephen gave his reasons for the criticism. He even gave you an opportunity to explain some of the criticisms he had of your work. Your response, to date, has been to sing your own praises and ignore the issues. If anyone has been ignoring the discussion of orchids, and the books written about them, it's you.

There is a pattern developing here. Heather asked you how someone who writes about keeping orchids alive can't seem to do so, and you responded with rude and off-putting banter. Stephen asked about your lack of citation for information about plants you couldn't have possibly seen in-situ, and you respond with rude and off-putting banter. I question your ability to effectively teach about the subject you seem to love while being so rude and off-putting, and you respond with rude and off-putting banter. Do you see a pattern developing here? Or do you just not get it?

Post an honest explanation to Heather about what happened to your orchids, without being snide. Post a response to Stephen's questions about where you got the information in your book that wasn't based on your own research, and why you didn't cite it. Do these things without being pompous and arrogant, and I guarantee you will sell more books. I have no intention of supporting authors with questionable credibility.
 
First paragraph of LB's first message:
Lance Birk said:
Silence882 - Stephan Manza

I am really tired of you continuously trashing my book with your stupid and mostly self-serving comments every time the subject arises. What is it with this compulsion you have to display your own limitations? Your failure to recognize the accuracy and quality of my work simply displays your ignorance, your lack of experience and your irresponsibility.

First Paragraph of LB's second message:
Lance Birk said:
Unfortunately, John, you don’t get it. You just missed the entire point of my message. This isn’t about you, or about Stephan Manza, or about any other personality. This is about orchids.

These two paragraphs conflict.

Like most other members of this forum, I love talking about orchids. I reviewed the PGM 2nd edition and would have welcomed a reasoned rebuttal. What you started with was a baseless attack. You have yet to address any of the concerns that I and others have brought up with regards to your book.

The people here have become a community based on mutual respect. We welcome everyone, but aren't going to put up with the rudeness and arrogance that you have so far displayed.

Lance Birk said:
Maybe I am mistaken, but I was under the impression this Forum was a place to discuss matters concerning best methods of orchid growing, and a place where beginners can learn how to stop killing them. Perhaps you, too, fail to understand that my book explains things such as why, exactly, air movement is so important, what, exactly, happens when you water, and why, exactly, orchids need good light, in a way that no other author ever did, so why would anyone want to recommend against it? I would imagine you would agree that saving the lives of orchids is a favorable result, and that you might even subscribe to my position; or am I missing something about the purpose of this Forum?

This forum is for all things slipper-related (and even some non-slipper related). It includes, but isn't in any way limited to, orchid culture.

The two messages you have so far posted don't make you sound like you want to discuss orchid culture. They make you sound like you want to preach your methods of orchid culture and that anyone who doesn't immediately acknowledge that they're wrong and you're right must be ignorant. I'm sure everyone here would welcome your involvement in the various discussions. But you don't get to be dictator of the culture threads, however much you may think you deserve the title.

--StephEn
 
Honestly, I hate getting serious and all cause it aint all that serious. I just skim this thread. Picking up bits and pieces here and there from what people say.

Life is experiential and the only way someone can truely say an individual is right or wrong is if someone walked in the subjects shoes from birth to death but in and of itself that still would be biased. It's all relative ultimately no ones right and no ones wrong. It just depends on the glasses we choose to put on.

My glasses show me that this world is everyone's playground whether you live in ethiopia or beverly hill's. Some kid's just don't know how to use there toys. Look at these wars because these so called "popular/important" kids get scratches on their ego so they go "booohoo I need to feel better so im gonna point an atomic missle at you" Then people get pissed cause their kids die in wars. Now you can just take that popularity rating and multiply or divide that by any number and add however many zero's you want to the end. The only difference it make is your either selling lemonade on the corner for 5 cents a glass or trips on spaceships for billions of dollars.

Anyways enough with my theological/philosophical crap. I'm gonna go back to being a kid :p . So can we sing kumbaya now? please? :)
 
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PHRAG and Silence

I can’t believe I have to spell this out for you, but here it is---open your mind please, and just read:

For anyone who actually reads my book, they will learn just about everything they need to become a successful orchid grower, in practically any environment, in any hemisphere. This is proven and I have hundreds of letters and e-mails from people around the world as proof. I have also seen that proof in several different countries.

For Silence to recommend people not buy it, is to deny to those who would believe his words, the opportunity to learn those successful techniques. Therefore, until that ‘someone’ learns to be a successful orchid grower, he will continue to kill more of his orchids. I don’t like that.

I put my foot down on Silence because I thought he was being unfair, unreasonable, and stupid. He is an ignorant orchid grower, and I do not mean this as an insult, who does not know the difference between P. callosum and P. viniferum. And I doubt he knows about Rebecca Northen because he doesn’t even have any of her books. And if anyone else doesn’t know who she was, she was probably THE person most responsible for modern orchid culture.

He is probably a nice fellow, but he completely missed the point, too. He thinks a bibliography is so important, but that’s just mindless drivel. The real truth of knowledge comes when you read and absorb everything there is about a subject……not just the “loc. cits.”

My own knowledge came from many parts. I had access to Dr. Fowlie’s and the Orchid Digest files, I picked the brains Of Dr. Jim Asher and Dr. George Kennedy, as well as those of countless other orchid people. I’ve been to herbaria and botanic gardens around the world and I’ve been to many orchid habitats. I even took some habitat data from Phil Cribb. I could go on, and on, and on…..but, so what? Who give a rat’s ass when the data is good and the methods work??? Get off it Silence…a bibliography gives you zip!

And if it will make you both happy, I will say this about Heather. On the other Forum, I offered her suggestions, encouragement, hope, support and my considered advice, and I tried to help her to understand how she could use her own power of observation and logic to diagnose and solve some of her cultural problems.

In return, I was greeted with anger, resentment, ridicule and a barrage of antagonistic questions that I had already addressed to her. She then met my every post with her own editorial comments, in fact, trying to make me look bad. I certainly did not expect or need such harassment and I dropped off the Forum. Her compulsive obsession to inject herself into each and every conversation is not something I have the need to endure. This is why, until now, I never posted here, even though I was asked to do so by several members.

She then started sending me private e-mails and in one she offered an apology. But she immediately asked other questions, answers to which were addressed in my book, and I told her so. Finally, I asked her to return my book and I would send her a full refund. She refused.

Heather does not speak the truth about me. She is a congenital non-learner who resents authority, she fears someone with confidence and she reacts quickly with anger. I told her exactly why I no longer grew orchids, and here in this Forum she denies the fact. The reason is also printed in my book on page 146, in complete and agonizing detail, again, she failed to read my book.

So Heather, if you want me to continue with this, and to reproduce your e-mails and posts I will, but I really don’t think you want me to go there. You make the call, or just leave it alone.

This is all just a lot of BS, PHRAG, and were you or Silence more knowledgeable about orchids this drama would not be necessary. Again, I don’t mean that as any kind of an insult, it’s simple fact. I certainly don’t have the time to educate either you or anyone else about what I have learned….that is precisely why I wrote the book. I guess if I had a Ph.D after my name you would then believe me more, right?

And to answer another question, I’ve sold well over 7,000 paph books. And while in the real world that isn’t much, I’ve been told by several booksellers just how well it outsells any other orchid book of its kind.

And I can tell you this: I have been to places that most people would never believe. I’ve seen things that I don’t think any human has seen before. I have done things that actually changed the world, as trite as that may sound, in places other than in orchids. I have a huge curiosity, a gift of insight and of intelligence, and I exercise them as best I can.

This has been at a huge cost in time, money and energy. While I never had to kill anyone, I came dangerously close at times. One friend died in my arms, but I saved the life of another. My own life was spared a dozen times, by nothing more than luck. Most people just have no clue of what it takes to learn truth, and to some, this all must sound like I’m “patting myself on my back.” I put a lot of what I learned in my paph book, and I offer it to anyone who wishes to learn from these things. It makes me happy that so many people have found it useful and the lives of orchids have been bettered.

When you get right down to it, it really is all about ORCHIDS, isn’t it?

Lance Birk
 
Ok, before I dig into a response, let me just say this. If you don't like this thread or the feelings it represents, don't read it. Nobody is making you read it. If you don't like the fact that this forum allows for ALL of it's members to speak their minds, even if they have a problem with someone, then don't read the threads that bother you.

Lance Birk said:
For Silence to recommend people not buy it, is to deny to those who would believe his words, the opportunity to learn those successful techniques. Therefore, until that ‘someone’ learns to be a successful orchid grower, he will continue to kill more of his orchids. I don’t like that.

Mr. Birk, you have convinced me! I will never buy your book, and I am going to recommend to everyone I know that they don't buy it either. It may very well be a great cultural manual. What others have said here disputes that, but that is not the reason I won't buy your book. I am not going to buy your book because I would be supporting you financially by doing so. I am sorry for engaging you in such a way on a public forum. I had heard stories of your unrelenting narcissism before, but now I have experienced it firsthand.

Lance Birk said:
I put my foot down on Silence because I thought he was being unfair, unreasonable, and stupid. He is an ignorant orchid grower, and I do not mean this as an insult, who does not know the difference between P. callosum and P. viniferum. And I doubt he knows about Rebecca Northen because he doesn’t even have any of her books. And if anyone else doesn’t know who she was, she was probably THE person most responsible for modern orchid culture.

This paragraph is proof that you need some counseling. You "put your foot down on" someone? Do you have any control over how arrogant you allow yourself to be? You are saying Rebecca Northen is the person most responsible for orchid culture in the above paragraph. That's a switch, I thought you were the person most responsible for orchid culture. You seem to take every opportunity to tell people that.

Lance Birk said:
He is probably a nice fellow, but he completely missed the point, too. He thinks a bibliography is so important, but that’s just mindless drivel. The real truth of knowledge comes when you read and absorb everything there is about a subject……not just the “loc. cits.”
Lance Birk said:
My own knowledge came from many parts. I had access to Dr. Fowlie’s and the Orchid Digest files, I picked the brains Of Dr. Jim Asher and Dr. George Kennedy, as well as those of countless other orchid people. I’ve been to herbaria and botanic gardens around the world and I’ve been to many orchid habitats. I even took some habitat data from Phil Cribb. I could go on, and on, and on…..but, so what? Who give a rat’s ass when the data is good and the methods work??? Get off it Silence…a bibliography gives you zip![/

The bibliography is important because without citing one's sources, one becomes a plagiarist. I think you have just admitted to it. I thought your knowledge came from your own research? And now you are telling us all of the above people helped you write your book and you didn't credit them? I suggest you look up the definition of plagiarism.

Lance Birk said:
So Heather, if you want me to continue with this, and to reproduce your e-mails and posts I will, but I really don’t think you want me to go there. You make the call, or just leave it alone.
Let me tell you something else, Mr. Birk. I have NEVER, NEVER known Heather to be anything of the things you said about her. I am to believe you, a narcissist and a plagiarist, above a person who I know to be a kind and caring person? Your psychosis is so absolute, it taints everything you write!


If you talk to another member in a threatening tone like this, I will ban you myself. Do you understand? You make the call.

Lance Birk said:
This is all just a lot of BS, PHRAG, and were you or Silence more knowledgeable about orchids this drama would not be necessary. Again, I don’t mean that as any kind of an insult, it’s simple fact. I certainly don’t have the time to educate either you or anyone else about what I have learned….that is precisely why I wrote the book. I guess if I had a Ph.D after my name you would then believe me more, right?

You seem to believe that anyone who questions you in any way is an ignorant person who doesn't care about orchids. You sir, are the worst sort of teacher. You are a dictator. If someone asks you to explain yourself, you become the absolute authority who should never be questioned. In a way, this is a good thing. It shows people just the type of person you are, and gives you no credibility. People need to support authors who care more about orchids, and teaching, than making themselves look like an authority. In your case, regarding your intelligence and your contribution to the orchid growing community, the "emperor has no clothes."

Lance Birk said:
And I can tell you this: I have been to places that most people would never believe. I’ve seen things that I don’t think any human has seen before. I have done things that actually changed the world, as trite as that may sound, in places other than in orchids. I have a huge curiosity, a gift of insight and of intelligence, and I exercise them as best I can.
Lance Birk said:
This has been at a huge cost in time, money and energy. While I never had to kill anyone, I came dangerously close at times. One friend died in my arms, but I saved the life of another. My own life was spared a dozen times, by nothing more than luck. Most people just have no clue of what it takes to learn truth, and to some, this all must sound like I’m “patting myself on my back.” I put a lot of what I learned in my paph book, and I offer it to anyone who wishes to learn from these things. It makes me happy that so many people have found it useful and the lives of orchids have been bettered.

If you want to be lauded as a true pioneer in orchid culture techniques, stop trying so hard to praise yourself with overly grandiose statements. We already have a Mahon here, and he is better at this than you. When you say these statements about yourself, it just sounds like a contrived and poorly thought out press release. Other people must say these things about you in order for it to be effective in elevating your status. The only way people will want to praise you for your work, is when your work is worthy of praise.

When you decide to present your public image as someone authoritative, but then attack those who ask you difficult questions, it ruins any chance you have of building a solid reputation. Instead of being that likeable researcher with wild stories to tell, you become that cantankerous, old orchid hobbyist with too much time on your hands, a passport and enough money to hop on a plane. Seeing an orchid in-situ and writing a mediocre book does not an orchid legend make.

Between the rip-off orchid dealers, the crooked botanical garden staff, the self-proclaimed orchid experts and the wanna-be orchid rock stars, it is a small wonder all the orchids haven’t been crushed to death under the immense weight of your bloated egos.

Lance Birk said:
When you get right down to it, it really is all about ORCHIDS, isn’t it?

This is the funniest statement you have made to date. To you, it's all about the Lance Birk. "How can I make Lance Birk look like a god today?" I really believe you think that way. Fortunately for me, I have seen through it before I wasted my money on your book.
 
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Lance Birk said:
I can’t believe I have to spell this out for you, but here it is---open your mind please, and just read:
You telling anyone to open their mind is laughable.

Lance Birk said:
For anyone who actually reads my book, they will learn just about everything they need to become a successful orchid grower, in practically any environment, in any hemisphere. This is proven and I have hundreds of letters and e-mails from people around the world as proof. I have also seen that proof in several different countries.

For Silence to recommend people not buy it, is to deny to those who would believe his words, the opportunity to learn those successful techniques. Therefore, until that ‘someone’ learns to be a successful orchid grower, he will continue to kill more of his orchids. I don’t like that.

And the only way to become a successful orchid grower is for 'someone' to buy your book? And anyone who doesn't recommend your book is ignorant? I don't think so. Whether or not you first came up with the methods I can't say one way or the other. But as of now, the information you provide isn't new, novel, exciting, or unique. To spend $68 for a copy of the 2nd edition would be a waste of money.

Lance Birk said:
I put my foot down on Silence because I thought he was being unfair, unreasonable, and stupid. He is an ignorant orchid grower, and I do not mean this as an insult, who does not know the difference between P. callosum and P. viniferum. And I doubt he knows about Rebecca Northen because he doesn’t even have any of her books. And if anyone else doesn’t know who she was, she was probably THE person most responsible for modern orchid culture.

Actually, I do know the difference between callosum and viniferum because I read the original description in the 2000 Orchid Digest.

An eye-opening side note is that the two pictures that you use in your book are the exact same ones that appeared at the start of the article (the difference being that you have edited out the internode in the one on the left and the stake holding up the spike in the one on the right). The OD credits the photos to Clark Day, Jr. and Paphanatics, unlimited. Your book doesn't list anyone as having taken those photos, at least not on the viniferum page. There is a generic list in small print under 'Photographs' on the copyright page (neither Clark Day, Jr., Paphanatics, Koopowitz, or Hasegawa is listed; Orchid Digest is listed). You obviously want the casual reader to think the photos are yours.

In their description, Koopowitz & Hasegawa first state the origin of three of the four [known] original clones, "The plant had surfaced in an enormous importation of P. callosum brought into Holland from Burma...". In the next paragraph they state the origin of the fourth clone, "The plant was thought to have originated in Vietnam or Cambodia."
(Source: Koopowitz, H, Hasegawa, N. Paphiopedilum viniferum, A New Species Name for a Well-known Plant. Orchid Digest 64 (4):150, Oct/Dec; 2000.)

Your book lists under Paph. viniferum: "RANGE: Burma, possibly Vietnam or Cambodia".

I assume the K & H article is where you got your info? I of course have know way of knowing that for sure because it's not cited. You, like every other non-fiction author, aren't entitled to use other peoples' information without citing it.

Lance Birk said:
He is probably a nice fellow, but he completely missed the point, too. He thinks a bibliography is so important, but that’s just mindless drivel. The real truth of knowledge comes when you read and absorb everything there is about a subject……not just the “loc. cits.”

My own knowledge came from many parts. I had access to Dr. Fowlie’s and the Orchid Digest files, I picked the brains Of Dr. Jim Asher and Dr. George Kennedy, as well as those of countless other orchid people. I’ve been to herbaria and botanic gardens around the world and I’ve been to many orchid habitats. I even took some habitat data from Phil Cribb. I could go on, and on, and on…..but, so what? Who give a rat’s ass when the data is good and the methods work??? Get off it Silence…a bibliography gives you zip!

A bibliography allows others to confirm what has been said and to compare your interpretation with the original work. Anyone who's written a college paper knows that a professor would laugh at a student who turns in an assignment without a bibliography and footnotes.

Lance Birk said:
This is all just a lot of BS, PHRAG, and were you or Silence more knowledgeable about orchids this drama would not be necessary. Again, I don’t mean that as any kind of an insult, it’s simple fact. I certainly don’t have the time to educate either you or anyone else about what I have learned….that is precisely why I wrote the book. I guess if I had a Ph.D after my name you would then believe me more, right?

Actually there would be no need for this discussion if you had a Ph.D. Most people know enough to cite their sources.

Lance Birk said:
And to answer another question, I’ve sold well over 7,000 paph books. And while in the real world that isn’t much, I’ve been told by several booksellers just how well it outsells any other orchid book of its kind.

And I can tell you this: I have been to places that most people would never believe. I’ve seen things that I don’t think any human has seen before. I have done things that actually changed the world, as trite as that may sound, in places other than in orchids. I have a huge curiosity, a gift of insight and of intelligence, and I exercise them as best I can.

This has been at a huge cost in time, money and energy. While I never had to kill anyone, I came dangerously close at times. One friend died in my arms, but I saved the life of another. My own life was spared a dozen times, by nothing more than luck. Most people just have no clue of what it takes to learn truth, and to some, this all must sound like I’m “patting myself on my back.” I put a lot of what I learned in my paph book, and I offer it to anyone who wishes to learn from these things. It makes me happy that so many people have found it useful and the lives of orchids have been bettered.

I am actually looking forward to reading your next book. I like reading the older stories told by plant hunters and it will be interesting to compare those to a modern account.

But this thread isn't about you or your exploits, despite your best efforts to make it so.

--Stephen
 
Lance Birk said:
And if it will make you both happy, I will say this about Heather.... [rant continues]

This is supposed to make someone happy?

You're not gonna get anyone on this forum to believe the **** you've been shovelling. Heather is as friendly and respectful a person as you'll ever meet. I have been glad to get to know her over the past year and am happy she's here.

As I've said before, I imagine most people would be happy to hear your input in many of the theads, but not if it's the same pompous pontificating that you have so far demonstrated. We don't need a 'Well I'm an expert and who are you to dare question me' attitude running around.

--Stephen
 
Holy smokes, you guys are getting a bit fired up over differences in philosophy and a few big egos. I would recommend that you all take a step back absorb all of this and move on...........
Stuff like this is similar to why the U.S. and the world are so polarized on so many levels. If you can't talk to each other than just ignore each other.....
 
slippertalker said:
Holy smokes, you guys are getting a bit fired up over differences in philosophy and a few big egos. I would recommend that you all take a step back absorb all of this and move on...........
Stuff like this is similar to why the U.S. and the world are so polarized on so many levels. If you can't talk to each other than just ignore each other.....

Why are all of you so ready to stifle this discussion? If you don't like a fiery debate. don't read it!

I am not going to be so stupid as to say don't post here. Everyone has the right to say whatever they want. But this posting, asking everyone to hold hands and sing kumbaya is annoying.

If Mr. Birk didn't want this discussion to continue, he would quit responding. This is a discussion forum. The discussion will continue as long as it will. You can't control it, and the administrators of this forum started this forum so discussion could take place, for free, without fear of reprisal.

Mr. Birk has yet to answer any of the questions put to him on this forum. Is that not important enough for you to discuss?
 
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And saying that our discussion here is somehow linked to the United States being hated by the world is a stretch, don't you think?
 
Personally, I enjoy this sort of discussion, (in fact, that's why I started asking Lance questions way back when in the first place!) This is one of the things that John and I really felt strongly about when we started this forum. The number of posts at the other forum that were locked or deleted because of this sort of 'disagreeable' conversation (including most of the kovachii threads) was disconcerting to me, and I always was disappointed when valuable discussion was effectively shut down.

People have been criticized here, and they need to be able to respond. I don't think anything has really gotten out of hand here.
 
Lance Birk said:
Finally, I asked her to return my book and I would send her a full refund. She refused.

Lance,
Can I send you back your book for a full refund?
 
Lance Birk said:
He thinks a bibliography is so important, but that’s just mindless drivel. The real truth of knowledge comes when you read and absorb everything there is about a subject……not just the “loc. cits.”

My own knowledge came from many parts. I had access to Dr. Fowlie’s and the Orchid Digest files, I picked the brains Of Dr. Jim Asher and Dr. George Kennedy, as well as those of countless other orchid people. I’ve been to herbaria and botanic gardens around the world and I’ve been to many orchid habitats. I even took some habitat data from Phil Cribb. I could go on, and on, and on…..but, so what? Who give a rat’s ass when the data is good and the methods work??? Get off it Silence…a bibliography gives you zip!


From Indiana University: www.indiana.edu

To avoid plagiarism, you must give credit whenever you use
  • another person’s idea, opinion, or theory;
  • any facts, statistics, graphs, drawings—any pieces of information—that are not common knowledge;
  • quotations of another person’s actual spoken or written words; or
  • paraphrase of another person’s spoken or written words.
 
An open letter to John McGarity, SlipperTalk.com founder:

Dear Sir,
This thread has caused me to do a lot of thinking and reflecting. I really think there is only one course of action here. John, it's time to man-up and do it for the orchids. You know what I'm talking about. It's time that you close down the SlipperTalk forums and make the URL point to http://www.lancebirk.com. Seriously. The book has everything that you need to know about growing orchids. What's the point of a forum, then? We just don't need it. Think about it, John.

kentuckiense

CC: Woola, Marty, Pete, and whoever runs RV-Orchidworks
 
I'm not here to bash anyone, but here's my take on it.

I remember when Lance joined the other forum. I remember, because like when Olaf and Leo and Bob etc, etc, etc(way too many to list) joined, I was excited. I thought to myself how awesome it was that I finally found a place where all these people I only knew from their work actually posted their opinions and expertise for everyone to read. So many people who I always wanted to meet in person, and I figure this is the next best thing.

Unlike all the other wonderful people who joined that didn't let me down, and showed they were not only experts, but also wonderful people to be around, Lance decided he was King of the paphs and he didn't write A book on paphs, he wrote THE book on paphs. I've read it, and thought it had good information, but have also read many books I felt to be better. This was my opinion, and is why I didn't recommend Lance's book either. On top of that, the more I've learned, the more I've learned how much more I have to learn. This makes having someone who comes off very arrogant stressing they do know everything much more annoying and much less credible to me.

I don't know Stephen as well as I know Heather, but I know he's irritated more than one taxonomist with his demand for quality. I think that is a good thing. A major part of his slipper hobby is researching what others have found and assembling it together in a very technical way. In doing so he wants the hard facts, and I don't blame him, I applaud him for that. This is why I was not surprised at all when he didn't recommend Lance's book, because it definitely is not a taxonomic work. I personally found the information as common knowledge, and a higher quality book with more species and better pictures could be found elsewhere, that's why I didn't recommend it.

Say what you will about Heather, it will fall on deaf ears. We know better. I can see how her question could sound a bit prying to Lance, but knowing her, I took it as an honest question with all the new growing techniques and medias around today like semi-hydroponics and coconut husk chips, how could he say his way was better without trying the new ways?

Jon
________
Mazda luce picture
 
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Silence

I would be remiss if I did not say this about you. I have a lot of respect for the mission you have chosen, and that is the work on your Web site. While I have disagreements with some of your content, I have a lot of admiration for the scope of your project and I encourage you to continue.

I also admire your energy and your drive to locate and to reference a very impressive amount of data for people to find in one, easily accessible site….(just like my book!). I also have confidence that at some point, you will become well educated about orchids. I hope your interest and enthusiasm continues beyond that point, before you probably get interested in something like frogs, fish, parrots, or something with similar intrigue.

Which brings the point:
There are two issues here. First off, my book is a cultural book. You have focused on taxonomical issues. The entire cultural aspect is mine and mine alone. There is nothing to cite, anywhere. And, as I said before, I put photos in my book to allow readers to identify their plants. The identities I placed on some species, which someone might find controversial, are my own interpretation. Of course, I studied hard the existing data, and in some I reached a different conclusion than Cribb or Koopowitz. I just happen to think mine are more correct. (It’s a matter of opinion, remember?).

I sat down with Jack Fowlie on many occasions. We went through his files of books, maps, hand-written letters, photographs, line drawings, photos of herbarium sheets, and all sorts of stuff, some of which dated back to earlier centuries. We compared notes and discussed personal anecdotal episodes, and those of acquaintances, and we compared descriptions, oftentimes of the same subject, identified differently by different, or even the same, ‘authority.’ We discussed the intent of descriptive Latin words, which vary all over the place. Even the word “Brachypetalum” is illegally comprised of both Greek and Latin. Botany is really a mess. Cribb, and the current Royal Horticulture Society are screwing it up in such a way, I don’t see how it will ever get sorted out.

I could spend hours going through Cribb’s paph book, listing errors he has made, both in judgment and in interpretation of his published work. Still, I think his 2nd edition is a superb reference book, and an art book, I just have a different opinion of how he interprets his raw data.

I have to tell you how little faith I have in our education system. I am familiar with the Ph.D program at the Univ. of California at Santa Barbara. I have read countless books, textbooks and articles, some written by professors themselves, who have published NUMEROUS errors, and in some cases, completely false results and bogus data in their works. I know this because, in many cases I repeated those same experiments and found different results, and I found where and why they made their mistakes. Mistakes are not just limited to botany, as I have found them in texts of other sciences as well.

A good amount of my “Range” data came from national library books which describe climate and weather information. Compared to maps and personal knowledge, or from persons familiar with local geography, etc., it doesn’t always jibe. In many cases I had to make an educated “guess” (Oboy, there goes my credibility), to arrive at suitable data to include in my book. And, some of my data came from my past experiences of habitat types, etc., by deduction from certain clues derived from plant growth characteristics and a whole range of separate sources.

So how do you prepare a bibliography of this sometimes conflicting or unbelievable data? More importantly, why bother when my data is good and the results are proven?

You asked a question about range, and whether I knew the complete range of a species. Answer: No one does. Not even Cribb, yet he drew his maps based on his guess, as well as from some hard data. The truth is, no one will ever know for sure, but both Cribb and I have stated our best guesses… and it works as far as any reader is concerned.

Neither Norito nor Harold had suitable photos of P. viniferum so Harold said to use the Digest plates. Steve Golis sent them to me as I flew to China…..my credit to the Orchid Digest was proper and correct. You may have noticed that I published photos of illegal species, but I purposefully did not credit them to individuals in particular, instead I credited my sources in one group. You should know this is proper and smart. By the way, No one could tell me exactly where this species originates, opinions abound but none have been found in the wild, so I took my best guess after consulting with persons who live there or are familiar with orchids from those areas. I did not take the Digest at the time, but Harold and Norito both told me their best guesses, so I do not owe the Digest a loc. cit.

At some point Silence, you need to be able to find trust in information you find. To me, it took a lot of years of investigation; maybe you will take the same path. I have already told you the truth about what I know, some day you will understand.

Good luck in your journey.

Lance Birk
 
Lance's book is one of favorite books. I must look at twice a week. Why did I get in to orchids? I like the pretty flowers. People should remember why they got in to orchids. Rusty.

When I heard the Learn'd Astronomer

When I heard the learn'd astronomer;
When the proofs, the figures, were ranged in columns before me;
When I was shown the charts and the diagrams, to add, divide, and
measure them;
When I, sitting, heard the astronomer, where he lectured with much
applause in the lecture-room,
How soon, unaccountable, I became tired and sick;
Till rising and gliding out, I wander'd off by myself,
In the mystical moist night-air, and from time to time,
Look'd up in perfect silence at the stars.

-- Walt Whitman
 

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