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I have a copy of Lance Birk's book and even though it may be useful as a cultural reference book, for me as a scientist I do not use it often as a reference book as I want a more in depth background to the history and taxonomic status of the different species. In my view both Phillip Cribb's book and Guido Braem's book on Paphiopedilums are much more valuable......but that is just my opinion

OK, I could not help to resist:

Lance Birk said:
Your failure to recognize the accuracy and quality of my work simply displays your ignorance, your lack of experience and your irresponsibility.

Just as an example to show "the accuracy and quality" of Lance Birk's work: On Page 263 of his book Mr. Birk states (in a capture underneath a picture of Mount Kinabalu), that Mt. Kinabalu stands majestic as the tallest mountain in the Southern Hemisphere.

#1 Mt. Kinabalu is not in the Southern Hemisphere, but it is in the Northern Hemisphere, and it definitely is not the tallest mountain on the Northern Hemisphere (is Mt. Everest).

#2 If it was on the Southern Hemisphere it still would not be the tallest mountain (as Mount Puncak Jaya on the Island of New Guinea is almost 1000 m taller, and Mount Aconcagua in Argentina at 6960 meters is the tallest mountain in the Southern Hemisphere).

Robert
 
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Lance Birk said:
You probably are an intelligent person and I assume you are simply ignorant and not devious. I really don’t know if you are seeking revenge with me for sending you a courtesy notice regarding your copyright infringement issue concerning graphics from my book, but if you are, I would think you might be grateful that I chose not to prosecute you. But maybe not.

I would like to post a quick explanation of this before dealing with the rest of the message later.

I redrew and cited, but posted without permission the bottom half of the line drawing (leaf and tip shapes) on page XII of the second edition. Mr. Birk was right to tell me to take the graphic down as I never should have posted it. This has nothing to do with my dissatisfaction with his book.

The courtesy notice Mr. Birk referred to was e-mailed to me on Aug 25, 2005. I immediately removed the graphic and replied saying I had taken it down. The two e-mails are reprinted below (gmail is great).

At this point the website was still very much in its infancy. I had registered for free hosting on Aug 1, 2005, and didn't register slipperorchids.info until October. I don't think I had actually posted any bloom photos on the site; it was still all the taxonomy tables. I would bet the graphic was up for a maximum of two weeks, but probably more like one.

If you would like to try to 'prosecute' me or file a lawsuit for damages, I suppose you still could. I don't think you would be able to find a lawyer to do so, though. I do, however, appreciate getting the notice. It showed me that I needed to be extremely careful with getting permission for posting anything that might exceed 'fair use'.

--Stephen

Copyright infringement notice, Aug. 25, 2005 6:48 AM:
Greetings Stephen Menza,

I just noticed that you have taken a page from my book, THE PAPHIOPEDILUM GROWER'S MANUAL, and/or the revised 2nd edition, and have copied it and have placed it on your Web site.:

http://paphfacts.maclenet.com/leaves.jpg

While I also noticed that you have given me credit for the "leaves", you have in fact failed to ask my permission for the use of my work. I have also noticed that you have in fact, placed your own copyright on my work. Both of these actions by you are clearly in violation of copyright laws.

Please consider this E-mail as a courtesy notice and IMMEDIATELY remove this page: http://paphfacts.maclenet.com/leaves.jpg before I will be forced to take legal action to enforce my copyright.

PLEASE REGARD THE DATE AND TIMESTAMP OF THIS NOTICE.

Sincerely,

Lance A. Birk, Author and Copyright owner.

My reply at 10:26 a.m.:
Hello, sorry about the infringement. I actually used your book as a
reference to draw the picture I had posted in Adobe Illustrator. I
sourced your book because that's where I got the info from. I have
taken the picture down and will modify it to where it is easily
discernible from your book.

--Stephen
 
Jon in SW Ohio said:
Weird...anyone else just have a flashback of the interview with Tom Cruise about brain science??

Jon

Ha ha. No. But comparing anything to Tom Cruise can't be good.
 
Can we all hold hand's and sing Kumbaya? :)

Pelt me with banana peels and other semi-hard objects if needed, unwanted paphs, dollar bills, seed pods, empty water bottles and any sort of unwanted objects and the like are all welcome, :D

Thanks. :)

Just trying to lighten up the mood here and get free plants in the process. lol (Like I would really be able to house anymore!)

----

As an aside I do plan on purchasing Lance Birk's and Phillip Cribb's books because I've heard good things about both of them. Once I find places that sell them. The only books I have is a general all around orchid for dummies type of book. And this flaskin book that I totally ignored after opening and scanning it. Looked to much like my chemistry lab book. A class I failed with flying colors! I think it's safe to say that I will probably never flask anything on my own. Most of my resources come from members of this forum, antec and friends I've meet along the way that I've asked for advice. Cheers and thanks to you all, you know who you are ;)
 
Alrighty, please indulge me while I respond to the rest of the attack.

My review:
silence882 said:
The Paphiopedilum Grower's Manual, by Lance Birk (2004) - A lot of information, but there's no way to know how accurate any of it is. There are no footnotes or even a bibliography. I never reference it. Also, the color of the photos is off. It's not worth the money.

There are lots of allegations made about me, so here we go:

Lance Birk said:
I am really tired of you continuously trashing my book with your stupid and mostly self-serving comments every time the subject arises. What is it with this compulsion you have to display your own limitations? Your failure to recognize the accuracy and quality of my work simply displays your ignorance, your lack of experience and your irresponsibility.
Gonna need more info on this one. I can't figure out how my review or my general dissatisfaction with the book qualifies as 'self-serving', 'displaying my own limitations', 'irresponsible' or 'ignorance'. Is the point here that no one who is not self-serving/irresponsible/ignorant could possibly dislike your book?

Lance Birk said:
There is a reason why both my editions became two of the best selling orchid books in history; it is because they offer innovative ideas that work. My book is the one that changed orchid growers; from being killers of orchids (see your own tag,”Paph Assassin’), into SUCCESSFUL orchid growers, and my 1st edition book was the tool that initiated the change. Mine was the first book written in English to list and to show photos of all the known paphiopedilums. More importantly, it is unique, as no other book has caused such a revolution in the cultivation of virtually all types of orchids. But first you need to actually read it.
Speaking of self-serving, this is quite a paragraph. I don't believe you've had nearly as much impact or deserve nearly as much credit as you give yourself.

The man I pay homage to (and wish I had had the chance to meet) is Jack Fowlie. He resparked the interest in the slippers when he took over as editor of Orchid Digest in the 1960s. His series of articles (which I only have about half of) describing his trips to the habitats of paphs and phrags are the best reference material I have yet seen.

Lance Birk said:
Your comments that my book is a “rant,” and that “the information is available in a dozen other places” acutely displays more of your ignorance. You just don’t get it! I suggest you read the Bulletin and the Orchid Digest and The Orchid Review issues published BEFORE your frame of reference (your own birth date), and become an educated person. Most books on your list came after my book. Many have copied me (without citation), as have other recent authors who now take my principles of culture and apply them to numerous other genera of orchids.
I didn't call it a 'rant' here, but I have used that word describing it elsewhere. I believe I said something like 'aside from the species pages, the rest is either available elsewhere or a rant.' I can't speak to who copied you or who use your principles of culture. I am mainly concerned with the verifiability of data. As with the info in your book, you've given no references and provided no examples that would let me confirm what it is you're saying about plagiarists.

Lance Birk said:
One of your main complaints seems to be that my book has no bibliography. Let me spell this out for you: A bibliography is for authors who employ other people’s ideas as the foundation for their work. I have read (at least once) almost every piece of literature ever written in English (and some in French), and then discarded most of it because I found it just a lot of replicated, bogus data that mostly leads to the death of our cultivated orchids.

My paph book is based on PURE research. Pure research is where you start from scratch and then go out to find what works, on your own. My research on paphiopedilums was done both in the greenhouse and from the jungle; it is something no other person has ever done. If you are unable to comprehend it, then I think you have the problem, not my book. Many thousands of orchid growers have found it offers them great success.
A bibliography is for authors who use any data from another's work. The fact that your book is based mainly and almost entirely upon your own observations doesn't mean that the data taken from elsewhere shouldn't be cited. A freshman in high school is taught never to use someone else's data without properly citing the source.

Under each of the species, one of the headings is 'Introduced by:'. This is data that can only come from research and yet, no sources are cited. How am I to know where you got the information so that I can check the sources? Habitat data is also listed for each species. I realize that you've seen almost all of them in situ, but have you seen them all? The ranges are listed as well. Are you saying that the ranges are just where you have seen each species? The same goes for the elevations where each has been found? It could be that the ranges and elevations are where you have found the plants, but how am I to know?

As an example, the first edition lists habitat data for Paph. delenatii, a species which wasn't recollected after the '20s until the early '90s. No source is cited and you obviously hadn't seen them in the wild, so where did that data come from?

You list the range of Paph. viniferum, a plant that, as far as I know, has only been seen in the wild by collectors (and maybe not even then, the variety appeared amongst a batch of callosum that were not necessarily in flower when collected). Where did the range come from that's listed in your book?

Robert's example of flat out wrong information is yet another question mark with regards to the books.

Lance Birk said:
Your comment, “None of his information is ever cited.” is a correct assessment. Mine is a CULTURAL book, not one about taxonomy. This is spelled out quite clearly in the Introduction (both editions), something you yourself could have read, had you bothered; and I put photos in my book for readers to see what each species looks like and to compare with those they have.
I realize this is a cultural book, which is why I wouldn't expect meticulous citations. A bibliography, though, would be the bare minimum.

Lance Birk said:
I accept your criticism about a few of the color photos. Since I chose to keep the cost of printing low, while still producing a high quality art book, I was forced to accept some discoloration caused by the flow characteristics of inks and by the physical placement of the photos in signatures. I wished photos in mine were as excellent as Cribb's 2nd edition paph book, but I didn’t think it would sell very well at well over a hundred dollars if I demanded such perfection. I believe most readers agree, (ask Phil Cribb).

While I agree that Averynov’s book is superb, most people will agree that the quality of photos in my book are quite a lot better. Still, his are more than acceptable to most everyone, and I noticed you failed to criticize them in your commentary. The major point you fail to notice is that just about every orchid grower is more interested in learning how to grow their plants well, than they are in reading taxonomy.
Saying that the 'color of the photos is off' in the second edition of your book was an understatement. I don't know the quality of the originals, but the reproductions of many of the species and in situ photos are horrible. The photos in the books of Averyanov et al, Braem, and Cribb, however, are superb.

Lance Birk said:
This is why my book remains a best seller.
Out of curiosity, how many copies of each edition have been printed and sold? And how does this compare to other slipper books as well as general orchid culture books? I assume you have these numbers?

Lance Birk said:
Meanwhile, stop trying so hard to impress people by your acquisition of book lists and a Web site displaying other people’s data, and instead, go learn what orchids require in order to prosper, and then learn how to grow them because right now you understand neither. Only then might you become knowledgeable, and your opinions actually mean something.
All science is based on the data previously collected by others (e.g., "If I have seen far, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants." --Newton). I haven't been to Asia, so all I can do is gather and summarize reliable information. Your book, without sources, doesn't qualify. My interests and site aren't cultural, obviously, as no advice in that respect is given.

And of course, the key question: if you don't care about my opinion, why the attack? Your entire message smacks of arrogance and has done nothing to rebut my criticisms or convince me that I'm wrong. I do realize, however, that there are some people who are so full of themselves that they take any criticism as a personal attack and respond maliciously. I guess that's you.

--Stephen
 
Pheeew! OK guys, I'll add my 2 cents.

I first met Lance Birk at the Fascination of Orchids show in Costa Mesa, 2005. He was at the booth next to me selling his latest book and we hit it off. He is a very cool dude, but not quite as cool as me (though he seems to think so).

Now, we have to all understand something here as you may not all know of his hardships. A few years ago he had a stroke and had to re-learn how to function, starting with learning how to move each finger on each hand. He was persistent and hopeful to regain his ability to function like any other human being. This recovery time can be quite painful to watch as one of my best customers had a stroke and it slowly brought him to rest over the period of two years. It is great to see how he has recovered so quickly and so well. The one thing I did notice by reading this forum is that he has gone insane (yes Lance, I’m talking to you now read up!).

I’m surprised to hear him say that his books are best sellers. I know for sure his second edition has only sold about 50 copies, of which 40 were ones that I purchased for resale. I think I’ve sold a few pages out of one I had to rip out because my customer was so damn cheap. The other thing is that when I was watching Lance sell his books, he would always offer an autograph, but he would actually want to charge $10 more per book. I kept telling him “Lance, you’re not THAT good looking!”. I wanted to help increase the sales of his book, so whenever he would leave his booth I would offer them for 50% off, which didn’t make him very happy when I sold a few copies (I think those were the other 10 copies out of the 50). The other strange thing is that he kept hitting on girls 1/2 his age (that would be about 50 year olds) that were walking around in the mall!

OK OK, I’m totally kidding Lance! I just like to get you riled up! Seriously, I’m not taking sides or anything, but trying (like Marco) to lighten things up a bit. Lance is indeed a very nice guy and when I read his criticizing response I could only help but laugh as I only know Lance to be a joker (he and I joke around a lot). I do have to say that the 1st edition of the Paph. Grower’s Manual is one of the first books I read when I started to get into paphs, and I am thankful and respectful for that. I offered my help with writing the 2nd edition, but he turned me down as I wanted 90% of all the profits. OK that was another joke! Anyways I just wanted to join in and say hi and that I know Lance is very good guy, in case this thread scared you away from him. Although meeting him in person might really scare you away… OK I need to stop with the jokes! Good night!
 
What the ****!?!?

Jason, that was the most confusing post in this forum's short history. :)

Nobody is questioning Lance's personality here. For whatever it's worth, he may be a great guy. But I think he stepped in here with his guns blazing at Stephen, who I have come to know as a great guy.

I think Stephen asked some very good questions that need to be answered. I am just waiting on Lance to come in here and answer them.
 
Well, all I know is, if he's such a nice guy, he would have accepted an honest apology after we had a run in a while back. I had asked him how he knew so definitively about their culture without actually growing Paphs for the last decade or so. That question didn't go over very well. I really wanted to know!

Knowledge can be expressed in an helpful, educational way, and knowledge can be expressed in an arrogant way. I've seen both from Lance, but more often the latter when any criticism of his methods is involved.
 
I do agree with you all, I'm just playing the joker that's all. I know Stephen is a good guy too, and I wasn't trying to say "hey everybody be on Lance's side!". Of course, the rest will be left up to he and Stephen to resolve whether it be here on the forum or in private.

Peace!
 
Jason Fischer said:
Pheeew! OK guys, I'll add my 2 cents.

I first met Lance Birk at the Fascination of Orchids show in Costa Mesa, 2005. He was at the booth next to me selling his latest book and we hit it off. He is a very cool dude, but not quite as cool as me (though he seems to think so).

Now, we have to all understand something here as you may not all know of his hardships. A few years ago he had a stroke and had to re-learn how to function, starting with learning how to move each finger on each hand. He was persistent and hopeful to regain his ability to function like any other human being. This recovery time can be quite painful to watch as one of my best customers had a stroke and it slowly brought him to rest over the period of two years. It is great to see how he has recovered so quickly and so well. The one thing I did notice by reading this forum is that he has gone insane (yes Lance, I’m talking to you now read up!).

I’m surprised to hear him say that his books are best sellers. I know for sure his second edition has only sold about 50 copies, of which 40 were ones that I purchased for resale. I think I’ve sold a few pages out of one I had to rip out because my customer was so damn cheap. The other thing is that when I was watching Lance sell his books, he would always offer an autograph, but he would actually want to charge $10 more per book. I kept telling him “Lance, you’re not THAT good looking!”. I wanted to help increase the sales of his book, so whenever he would leave his booth I would offer them for 50% off, which didn’t make him very happy when I sold a few copies (I think those were the other 10 copies out of the 50). The other strange thing is that he kept hitting on girls 1/2 his age (that would be about 50 year olds) that were walking around in the mall!

OK OK, I’m totally kidding Lance! I just like to get you riled up! Seriously, I’m not taking sides or anything, but trying (like Marco) to lighten things up a bit. Lance is indeed a very nice guy and when I read his criticizing response I could only help but laugh as I only know Lance to be a joker (he and I joke around a lot). I do have to say that the 1st edition of the Paph. Grower’s Manual is one of the first books I read when I started to get into paphs, and I am thankful and respectful for that. I offered my help with writing the 2nd edition, but he turned me down as I wanted 90% of all the profits. OK that was another joke! Anyways I just wanted to join in and say hi and that I know Lance is very good guy, in case this thread scared you away from him. Although meeting him in person might really scare you away… OK I need to stop with the jokes! Good night!

:rollhappy: :rollhappy: :rollhappy:

I actually like the book, it may not be a scientific masterpiece...but then again, I am no scientist, I find it pretty easy reading, usefull information for the normal grower. A lot of people want practical info, and don't want to sift through stacks of taxa to find out how often to water their insigne...

As soon as I can find one for sale locally I will purchase it...I am hogging our society's library book at the moment
 
I have both Lance Birk's book and Phil Cribb's 2nd Ed The Genus Paphiopedilum.
I have found both books useful as a beginner as they have a different aim. I think the quality and intelectual discipline in Cribb's book is much higher than in Lance's book ... and it makes me aware of just how much better Lance's book could have been. It's really hard work putting a book together and I'm guessing his anger at the criticism might just stem from the fact that he knows at some level in himself that this book could have been much better with a small additional fraction of the work he had already put in.

I think a grower's manual could have included more on some of the well know hybrids ... which are often easier to grow for beginner's and more commonly available. Some of the more discursive chapters could have been edited to remove repetition and convey ideas in a more concise and organised way. The quality of the photographs has been discussed above ... as someone new to paph growing I have to say that what I really liked about Cribb's book are the quality photo's/drawings of the plants ... as far as orchids go many paphs have great leaves and are mostly beautiful plants even when not in flower. It seems amiss not to indulge in this just a bit more.

Just imagine what kind of grower's manual could be produced from the collective knowledge/photo's/etc of the people in this forum ... assuming, improbably, that an ego-free collaborative spirit prevailed !! ... dream on.

Cheers,
Tim
 
PHRAG

Unfortunately, John, you don’t get it. You just missed the entire point of my message. This isn’t about you, or about Stephan Manza, or about any other personality. This is about orchids.

Maybe I am mistaken, but I was under the impression this Forum was a place to discuss matters concerning best methods of orchid growing, and a place where beginners can learn how to stop killing them. Perhaps you, too, fail to understand that my book explains things such as why, exactly, air movement is so important, what, exactly, happens when you water, and why, exactly, orchids need good light, in a way that no other author ever did, so why would anyone want to recommend against it? I would imagine you would agree that saving the lives of orchids is a favorable result, and that you might even subscribe to my position; or am I missing something about the purpose of this Forum?

I accept your welcome; and I stand by my post.

Lance Birk

Incidentally, in answer to posted comments, I never said my book was without mistakes. What I said was that my book has been responsible for saving the lives of countless tens of thousands of orchids…(actually, this is what Rebecca Northen once told me).

Jason: You said 5 paragraphs…you just wrote 4. You’re only getting 20 bucks and not the 50 you demanded. And I’m not a paraplegic, you jerk.
 
It's good to see that Lance Birk is on the forum too - so that I can get an answer here :

I just enjoyed the first edition of your book - I considered it as my Paph bible for many years - now my question is why are the picture in the second book or edition of such poor quality ?
 
Lance Birk said:
Jason: You said 5 paragraphs…you just wrote 4. You’re only getting 20 bucks and not the 50 you demanded. And I’m not a paraplegic, you jerk.

:rollhappy: Glad we didn't scare you away :)
 

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