One really unhappy phrag

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Jenn4a

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My phrags seem to be the happiest out of the chids I have. Except for the newest one, wallisii x schlimii. I'm not sure if he wants to be treated more like a schlimii or wallisii. :(
First I will tell you about my phrags and paphs I've had;
Phrag Fritz the 1st: I damaged the leaves (old news). His leaf is becoming stiff and is losing the green saturation. The underside has small damaged red spots, and the top looks a little potted. Spider mites?
Caudatum: looks really happy! The leaves are growing faster than I thought they would, and it looks like it's starting to make new roots at the base.
MWarrior: maybe starting new roots, growing more or less like the Caudatum.
MDC: I can't tell how the roots are doing, but the new growth is slowly getting larger. The older growth's leaves are still getting larger, not by much.
Fritz the 2nd: must LOVE me. The newest growth just keeps growing, pretty fast! There are new roots from the base of the newest growth, and I see a new root tip starting on one of the older roots from the oldest growth.
Paph. Sukhakulii: enjoys the higher humidity and wetter media; he's happy enough to put out 2 new growths! I think one is a root, and the other is a new fan.
Paph Ho Chi Minh: the leaves are growing, maybe starting new roots, but hard to tell. It seems happier when I keep the medium moist enough and not dry.

I water the phrags daily or every other day. The media dries out pretty fast. The smaller phrags and the paphs are kept in the mini setup with higher humidity. The two larger phrags are in dry rooms with a fan. The newest phrag is in the kitchen.

So the newest phrag is probably in trouble. The leaves are yellowing in areas, and yesterday I found a translucent yellow/rust halo on a leaf. I cut it off, and sealed it with alcohol and cinnamon. Last night, I checked him before going to bed and I found many asymmetrical translucent wet spots on the leaves. There was a pool of sap around the leaf I cut. :( Also, there were areas of sap on the top of the leaves. I'm not exactly sure if I'm dealing with multiple things. Pests? Infection? A problem with something else?
Here's the phrag's pictures. :( http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/jenn4a/library/schlimii x wallisii
 

SlipperKing

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What temperature are you keeping it at? The big brownish spots look like bacterial rot. The small stuff looks like cold damage and bacterial rot can get a great start if the temps are too cold. Cold temps and too much water is a formula for disaster.
 
J

Jenn4a

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You're probably on to something, and I didn't consider it. Usually the house stays around 63°F at night, and up to 70°F- 73° Day. The last couple days, the house has been colder. Maybe as low as mid 50°F's in the night, and as low as 65°F daytime. :( I have a humidity gauge and thermometer next to him. Right now it says a little over 66°F, and the humidity is around 31%.

The MDC and Fritz the second are in a different area, but probably around the same values. What temps should I be aiming for? The only one that looks affected is schlimii x wallisii.
Why doesn't this stuff click in my brain?! I've been walking around the house shivering. I already think the normal temps in the house are cold. :eek:

Thanks!
 

NYEric

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Yeah, that's a little cool.
BTW. When I clicked on your photobucket link some pretty funky stuff happened to my PC and some sweepstakes link popped under. Please copy and paste the IMG link for forums here, thanks.
 

SlipperFan

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My Phrags go down to 55ºF at night, and maybe a little lower. They don't have this problem. I'm wondering -- is this plant sitting in a window with those leaves very close or touching the window? It does look like cold damage to me, but localized.
 

SlipperKing

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Well my GH gets down to 55 as well but humidity is up to 80-90% and I don't water unless the day time will be sunny and warm. Jenn said this was the newest so I was wondering if the plant had been just mailed
 
J

Jenn4a

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I've purchased all my phrags from Hilltop orchids.
Sorry Eric, I don't know why it does that sometimes! I've been using photobucket on my phone and it doesn't let me resize images on the app. When I'm on the computer, I resize them so they aren't too large. I check the album links and the adds rarely pop up, but if it does I just close the tab and click the link again; then it works. Sorry about that again though!

About an hour ago, the temp by the new phrag was 71°F, and I got the same reading for the MDC and Fritz the 2nd.

If it's significant, it might be, since the weekend I bought him was warm for this time of year (50°F), the greenhouse was even warmer. I was sweating inside the GH; I think the house temps of 70-73 are cold. Hmm I wish I asked how warm it was inside. Could the sudden change of temps cause distress?<-- I think it can, but I'm not experienced enough to know for sure. Also, there is a fan going in there for air movement. New environment + sort of close to a window + fluctuating house temps + fan with cool air at some points of the day. I may be wrong, but now that I'm putting it all together (with your help), it sounds like cold damage is the most likely answer.

Yes I'm guilty. My two phrags in the shelving area don't seem to mind when they're watered, as long as they don't dry out. The bark I used for them dries out pretty fast, so if the bark isn't continually moist, it needs to be soaked to retain a decent amount of moisture again. I have watered them at night, but I'm careful of avoiding the leaves and the growths in general. The new phrag has not yet been repotted. Also guilty. I got him last Saturday. I water the new phrag when I wake up.

I was thinking that the phrag was being burned by the T5HO 24W at first. The window statement could be correct. I keep the MDC and Fritz further from it(different shelving unit), and mainly rely on the T5. I'm checking the temperature closer to the window, about 8 inches away on the shelf. I'll get back to you on the reading. The pot was 14" away (from the closest part facing the window), but some leaves could have definitely been close enough, now that I look at it. For reference, the room is 70°F right now by the two phrags, and the humidity read 28%
*luckily, the leaves never touched the window. It'll take awhile to see how low the temp gets by that window, but it says 68°F right now.

When I found the halo, it was positioned directly under the t5, about 8 inches away?

Thanks for the replies, sorry about the photo album links, and sorry for the cloudy judgement. I'm really out of it this week! Well.. More than usual.
 
J

Jenn4a

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Quick update: The room with the MDC and Fritz the 2nd did not drop below 61°F last night, 8" away from the window. To see the lowest value, I'll have to check tomorrow. It said 61°F was the lowest from another area.

It's telling me that the highest value is 90°F, and it's currently 82°F by the window, with 16% humidity. :eek:
 

SlipperFan

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So, you think the burning could be from being too close to the t5 light? Unlikely, unless the leaf was almost touching.
 
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Jenn4a

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So, you think the burning could be from being too close to the t5 light? Unlikely, unless the leaf was almost touching.

Thanks for the reply!
It was my initial thought, but I looked up pictures of sunburn and I didn't think it a perfect match. Also, I don't think it was close enough either, after seeing posts of T5s and plants very close to the bulbs.

I'm worried about the temperature swings in the house though. The good news is that the new phrag hasn't shown any rapid changes. I'll give it a more thorough look to make sure I didn't miss anything tonight.
 
J

Jenn4a

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At the top of my head, the only thing that I can think of that I left out would be that this phrag did not get watered with seaweed extract within the first couple days.
I've watered most of my plants with seaweed extract when I got them.. if not in the first 12 hours, I did within 2 days. I really don't know if seaweed extract would have any significance in this case..
 

SlipperFan

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Seaweed extract won't hurt, but I don't think that's an issue. I still think it looks like cold damage. If not from your care, then maybe before you got it. Cold damage may take a day or so to show up.
 
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Jenn4a

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Thank you so much for the replies! I'm very sorry for my ignorance. :eek:
I think this phrag will need to be repotted and I will check for damage. It is definitely possible that the damage could have been done or at least have started from the greenhouse. I'm not trying to blame the greenhouse because many of their orchids are wonderful. I just don't have the exact conditions they do.
For instance, this is what I've noticed.
They water with a hose, and they don't avoid the crowns or leaf axils. My Fritz Schomburg the 2nd came with water pooled in the inner most leaf, but I saw it and I wicked it up.
Also, I noticed that there's some water that randomly drips. Leaks? I've seen a few plants with their crowns caught underneath the drips and avoided those. They do move the plants around quite often.
As far as his temps, I will ask him next time. I should have asked.

It is possible that there was water stuck in the areas I couldn't see; several growths are showing some type of infection D: in January, I was extra afraid of rotting my plants that as soon as I got them, I dripped alcohol inside the crowns and axils. The last trip, I was lazy and did not take the same precautions. I believe he watered that same day.. Oh crap.

Sorry for the long post. The leaves that I have cut, they're still yellowing and turning red, but at least it's slower than before.. I did an overnight soak of generic cleary's when I posted the thread. I'll probably have to cut off some older growths, and some older leaves to get to the damaged areas.









 
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SlipperFan

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??? What you are showing now is very different from the earlier photos.
Most of what is see here is old spikes drying up, old leaves dying off, or just reddish coloration at the base of growths. The brown areas that looks soft -- I'd cut off and put cinnamon on that area. Or get Phyton 27 and spray it on the area.
 

Justin

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i think you might be over-observing the plant. most orchids will grow well with "benign neglect". just give it plenty of light, water, and air circulation and it should grow fine.
 
J

Jenn4a

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:confused: The ones I posted today were taken today, and the ones from earlier were from Friday or before then. I'm sorry.

My ignorance is here again.. I had no idea that this phrag bloomed before?.. :eek: I haven't had the opportunity to observe a phrag before blooming, or right after to know how it looks. The owner of the GH looked at it, and told me it looked like it was going to bloom soon though? I guess in my head I figured it hasn't bloomed yet.. I'm still not sure how to tell.

You're right Justin, I'm great at over-analyzing things.. good intentions though. I wanted to make sure the phrag is okay. :(

Thanks!
 
A

ALToronto

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Red coloration at the base of the growths is completely normal. You can do a lot of damage with the chemicals you have in mind, just leave it alone to adapt to its new environment.
 
J

Jenn4a

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Thanks! I appreciate all the responses.
I know that the pigmentation is normal for some phrags; I think the intense red color is rather neat, personally. I do have troubles differentiating reds, pinks, and browns sometimes though. :( maybe some of those areas I was worried about aren't brown but pink/red.

If you guys think it's relatively healthy, I'll repot him, then place him by my MDC and the big Fritz. :)

Is there anything I should worry about? I thought he was okay when I brought him home, and only became worried once the spots appeared. Once I'm out of my "worried" mode, I'll stop over-analyzing. ;)
 

Justin

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one other note. many Phrag species live in constantly wet environments in nature. some species even live submerged underwater at different times of the year. so you don't need to apply alcohol or chemicals every time water comes near the leaves. just focus on the learning the "macro" aspects of your overall orchid culture (light, water, humidity, airflow, feeding) and let the plants do their thing.
 

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