one more Phrag primary

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gonewild

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Kyle said:
But no different then if you were to use a pure besseae or dalessandroi to make hte hybrid. But it does create the opportunity for hybrids to be confused for species. From a conservation point of view, its bad.

It seems to me to be alot of time and effort for a grower to go from setting seed to get a blooming plant just to have it turn out like as they do. It take just as much effort to raise a good hybrid as it does a crappy one.

Hybridizers should set goals.

I don't see any goals being met when besseae and dalessandroi are crossed (or wallissii and caudatum or bois and longifolium)

To quote lien luu: Don't you all start yelling at me...
Not yelling but.....

Breeders need to consider many other factors other than the actual flower.

Once a hybrid is made the "specie form" is no longer a factor or even a concern to the breeder. The hybrid was made to change from the reality of nature to a fantasy for human appreciation.

Perhaps the hybridizers are looking at something other than improved flowers. Growth habit, vigor, environmental tolerances, flowering time and many more factors can be breed for using similar species.

I don't know if dalessandroi can bring in any backstage improvements but perhaps there is a reason to use it in combination with besseae.

Perhaps some generations down the line besseae hybrids will be improved with the use of similiar species and some hybridizing goals may be seen.
 

Heather

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gonewild said:
I don't know if dalessandroi can bring in any backstage improvements but perhaps there is a reason to use it in combination with besseae.
Yes, such as cutting down on besseae's penchant for climbing!

However, I do agree that Jersey has confused the besseae/dalessandroi species quite a bit (having purchased at least one "dalessandroi" that was clearly Jersey).
 

gonewild

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Heather said:
Yes, such as cutting down on besseae's penchant for climbing!
Exactly.

However, I do agree that Jersey has confused the besseae/dalessandroi species quite a bit (having purchased at least one "dalessandroi" that was clearly Jersey).
Yes, But it was not the hybridizer who caused the confusion. Nor was it the hybrid itself. Someone either through error or deceit mislabeled the plant you bought and that caused the confusion.
 

Kyle

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I can't think of many reasons to use the hybrids.

Don't like climbing? Use 100% dal in oyur hybrids

Want 'frilly' petals? Use 100% bois.

I was thinking of other characteristics then flower. And I can't think of many reasons to hybridize two very closely related species. Other then, they are both in bloom and you have an extra tooth pick.

Kyle
 

Kyle

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gonewild said:
Yes, But it was not the hybridizer who caused the confusion. Nor was it the hybrid itself. Someone either through error or deceit mislabeled the plant you bought and that caused the confusion.
But human nature being what it is, its bound to happen that people will miss lable the plant to make money. I think most people would rather have phrag dalessandroi then Phrag Jersey.

Kyle
 

Persephone

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Kyle said:
But human nature being what it is, its bound to happen that people will miss lable the plant to make money. I think most people would rather have phrag dalessandroi then Phrag Jersey.

Kyle

Hey! :mad:
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SlipperFan

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I can see a situation where a hybridizer, back in the days when dalessandroi was not considered a separate speciea, might use one plant for it's color/shape and another for it's branching habit.
 

Kyle

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I think the was the case with the Eric Young Foundation.

Kyle
 

Kyle

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Once the registar began allowing dalessandroi as a seperate species, EYOF went back and re-registered all there old hybrids with new names. They had been using dalessandroi all along.

Kyle
 

gonewild

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Kyle said:
I can't think of many reasons to use the hybrids.

Don't like climbing? Use 100% dal in oyur hybrids
Then you loose the 4 or 5 generations of "improved" flower form bred into besseae.

To breed away from the climbing habit I would think you would want to select the biggest, brightest, and bestest besseae available and breed it with the most compact, least climbing dalessandroi you can lay your hands on.

Want 'frilly' petals? Use 100% bois.
The other species must have some unique characteristic to impart?

I was thinking of other characteristics then flower. And I can't think of many reasons to hybridize two very closely related species. Other then, they are both in bloom and you have an extra tooth pick.
I'm sure a lot of crosses are made for that exact reason. But each species can have it's own influence on a hybrid and although slight it may ultimately be important.
 

gonewild

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Kyle said:
But human nature being what it is, its bound to happen that people will miss lable the plant to make money. I think most people would rather have phrag dalessandroi then Phrag Jersey.

Kyle
Your point is well taken.

But is someone who would purposely mislabel a plant just to make money really "people"? Not in my opinion, There are better names for them.

If most people would do this then the whole concept of labeling plants is a waste and so is the registration process.
 

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