E
Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
Now, now, now......
OK....I have been considering my words for a very long time. For those of you who know me, I do not post serious comments casually. I think about them. Then think again. I post under my own name, on every forum I participate in. What I say remains on the net, for all to see, should they be so bored as to do a Google search under my name. I am very unhappy with the direction I have seen this board going in with regard to discussions by Peter Croezen. I am starting this new thread because the other was closed down before I could post. First off....why do people defend Peter? Perhaps because we have known him for so long. No, not personally. Peter is an online comrade and correspondant, as are all of you. Over the years, I have made many friends and aquaintences online...some, like Lien and NYEric, I have met...most of you I have not...but many of us go way, way, back. I first discovered the OLD back in 1995...I was astounded, that me, a mere hobbiest, was actually able to commune with names I had encountered since I first took an interest in orchids....Joe Arditti, Guido Braem....the list goes on. I discovered that these guys can be cranks as well...I am a mere schoolteacher now, but I came from a research, academic environment...one of the reasons I chose teaching was to get away from the competition, egos and backbiting of academia (not to mention a terminal lack of ambition, love of summer vacation, and an uncontrollable tendency to treat grad school and academia in the same way I treated college.....I had to do something to preserve my brain and liver cells...well, liver cells grow back.....I think parenthood had something to do with it also...children need money in order to grow and prosper....) Knowledgable people can be sphincters...but I appreciate their knowledge. My professors taught me well....one of my favorite college professors turned out to be pretty anti-semitic...and, yes, he knew I was Jewish....there are things he said to me I don't respect....and there are things I learned that I remember till this day, and his classes were well worth it....what he said to me in a bar doesn't compare to what he said in the field. The point remains, knowledge and personality are separate. I quickly discovered that my adored orchid personalities were...well, personalities. I found some made there personalities inextricably tied in with there knowledge...Peter has been there since the beginning. Do I agree with his style? No, not always. However, I have corresponded with him both publicly and privately, and we have always had a civil discourse. And that is what bugs me here. I love this list....while I cannot claim to have put any work into this list, that credit goes to Heather, John, Blake, and others, I did my part to try to contact people I knew and make them aware that a site existed, devoted to the Cypripedioidiae, in which we could exchange knowledge, exchange pleasantries, perhaps disagree, without fear of censorship...without a big brother telling us how to think or behave or contacting us with PM's telling us that we were not allowed to mention certain names or sites. And this site fulfilled its purpose. We talked, we laughed, we argued....and still could see our words in print for all to regard, disregard, laugh or cry over. But what has happened now? If I were new to this list, seeing some of the discussion over Peter's posts, I would seriously wonder if this was the place to join....Blake and John, you have every right to disagree with Peter....and yes, even as administrators, you have the right of free speech as the rest of us. But...you are labelled as admins, and you have to realize that this adds responsibility. Like it or not, your words have significance that no disclaimers can eliminate. They set a tone that other's do not have. Hell, I know that there are things I can say to my friends, even my students, even on this list, that I cannot say to my children. Why? The same words? Because my position as a parent carries responsibility...and those words have a significance that are not perceived by others. And you must be aware of this responsibility. I am on many other lists..this one is a walk in the park compared to some. I think the admins on my fishing group must bar someone every day, and for good reason....the admins on my reef group are regularly admonished by members for the tone of some of their comments to other members...and then there is the OGD...solely run by Kenneth Bruyninxx (I hope he isn't reading this to see the crime I comitted to the spelling of his name...)...who has the patience of a saint...(and I have communicated privately with him and know his exasperation with some of the characters he deals with)...he has barred a total of maybe 3 people (all online friends of mine....I only hang with the best.....) in all the years he has run that list. Now, seriously guys....look at the language we have read..."enemy"...."hate"....???????? I am 52 years old, and I must say that in my life I haven't truly felt hatred for anyone (barring some temporary feelings towards ex-girlfriends in college...). Enemy??? I have never had an enemy in my life....and I am talking about the real world, with real people...this is all words...electrons on a screen....and you get worked up over this????? I have never gotten angry at anyone online. (Even when I disagreed with Gilda over that snake, there was no personal anger....and I'm sure if we met we would get along fine.)I find it inconceivable. I respect Guido and Lance, even if I disagree with their style, and especially disagree with the non-orchid things they say and their combative attitude.... I respect Joe Arditti and Uri Baruk, even though they must be wincing at the thought of their names being in the same (run-on) sentence as Guido's. One of my favorite online friends is George Norris...aside from a love of fishing, we have probably nothing in common besides orchids....and I made it clear to him in the beginning that our politics were not to be discussed, as we would be wasting our time...and we got along...I have rambled on too long. I have put most of you asleep...and if I have PO'd Blake, John, and Heather, my apologies...that was not the intention. I am not intending this statement to turn into a long thread....as I said, I have been thinking about this for a long time (for those of you with the patience to read this, I'm sure toooooo long....) and felt I must say something to clear my conscience from just being a mere spectator...on my favorite message board. To all, a good night and a great holiday weekend....I'm going fishing..........Take care, Eric
OK....I have been considering my words for a very long time. For those of you who know me, I do not post serious comments casually. I think about them. Then think again. I post under my own name, on every forum I participate in. What I say remains on the net, for all to see, should they be so bored as to do a Google search under my name. I am very unhappy with the direction I have seen this board going in with regard to discussions by Peter Croezen. I am starting this new thread because the other was closed down before I could post. First off....why do people defend Peter? Perhaps because we have known him for so long. No, not personally. Peter is an online comrade and correspondant, as are all of you. Over the years, I have made many friends and aquaintences online...some, like Lien and NYEric, I have met...most of you I have not...but many of us go way, way, back. I first discovered the OLD back in 1995...I was astounded, that me, a mere hobbiest, was actually able to commune with names I had encountered since I first took an interest in orchids....Joe Arditti, Guido Braem....the list goes on. I discovered that these guys can be cranks as well...I am a mere schoolteacher now, but I came from a research, academic environment...one of the reasons I chose teaching was to get away from the competition, egos and backbiting of academia (not to mention a terminal lack of ambition, love of summer vacation, and an uncontrollable tendency to treat grad school and academia in the same way I treated college.....I had to do something to preserve my brain and liver cells...well, liver cells grow back.....I think parenthood had something to do with it also...children need money in order to grow and prosper....) Knowledgable people can be sphincters...but I appreciate their knowledge. My professors taught me well....one of my favorite college professors turned out to be pretty anti-semitic...and, yes, he knew I was Jewish....there are things he said to me I don't respect....and there are things I learned that I remember till this day, and his classes were well worth it....what he said to me in a bar doesn't compare to what he said in the field. The point remains, knowledge and personality are separate. I quickly discovered that my adored orchid personalities were...well, personalities. I found some made there personalities inextricably tied in with there knowledge...Peter has been there since the beginning. Do I agree with his style? No, not always. However, I have corresponded with him both publicly and privately, and we have always had a civil discourse. And that is what bugs me here. I love this list....while I cannot claim to have put any work into this list, that credit goes to Heather, John, Blake, and others, I did my part to try to contact people I knew and make them aware that a site existed, devoted to the Cypripedioidiae, in which we could exchange knowledge, exchange pleasantries, perhaps disagree, without fear of censorship...without a big brother telling us how to think or behave or contacting us with PM's telling us that we were not allowed to mention certain names or sites. And this site fulfilled its purpose. We talked, we laughed, we argued....and still could see our words in print for all to regard, disregard, laugh or cry over. But what has happened now? If I were new to this list, seeing some of the discussion over Peter's posts, I would seriously wonder if this was the place to join....Blake and John, you have every right to disagree with Peter....and yes, even as administrators, you have the right of free speech as the rest of us. But...you are labelled as admins, and you have to realize that this adds responsibility. Like it or not, your words have significance that no disclaimers can eliminate. They set a tone that other's do not have. Hell, I know that there are things I can say to my friends, even my students, even on this list, that I cannot say to my children. Why? The same words? Because my position as a parent carries responsibility...and those words have a significance that are not perceived by others. And you must be aware of this responsibility. I am on many other lists..this one is a walk in the park compared to some. I think the admins on my fishing group must bar someone every day, and for good reason....the admins on my reef group are regularly admonished by members for the tone of some of their comments to other members...and then there is the OGD...solely run by Kenneth Bruyninxx (I hope he isn't reading this to see the crime I comitted to the spelling of his name...)...who has the patience of a saint...(and I have communicated privately with him and know his exasperation with some of the characters he deals with)...he has barred a total of maybe 3 people (all online friends of mine....I only hang with the best.....) in all the years he has run that list. Now, seriously guys....look at the language we have read..."enemy"...."hate"....???????? I am 52 years old, and I must say that in my life I haven't truly felt hatred for anyone (barring some temporary feelings towards ex-girlfriends in college...). Enemy??? I have never had an enemy in my life....and I am talking about the real world, with real people...this is all words...electrons on a screen....and you get worked up over this????? I have never gotten angry at anyone online. (Even when I disagreed with Gilda over that snake, there was no personal anger....and I'm sure if we met we would get along fine.)I find it inconceivable. I respect Guido and Lance, even if I disagree with their style, and especially disagree with the non-orchid things they say and their combative attitude.... I respect Joe Arditti and Uri Baruk, even though they must be wincing at the thought of their names being in the same (run-on) sentence as Guido's. One of my favorite online friends is George Norris...aside from a love of fishing, we have probably nothing in common besides orchids....and I made it clear to him in the beginning that our politics were not to be discussed, as we would be wasting our time...and we got along...I have rambled on too long. I have put most of you asleep...and if I have PO'd Blake, John, and Heather, my apologies...that was not the intention. I am not intending this statement to turn into a long thread....as I said, I have been thinking about this for a long time (for those of you with the patience to read this, I'm sure toooooo long....) and felt I must say something to clear my conscience from just being a mere spectator...on my favorite message board. To all, a good night and a great holiday weekend....I'm going fishing..........Take care, Eric