No accounting for judges

[Trithor]

I would have expected this MK to do better than 3rd. I know that it is a small plant, but the petals are nice and wide, colour good and stance above average. Guess I need to try and grow it a bit bigger?
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[mrhappyrotter]

What hybrid is it? I'm probably having a brain fart, but the only HK I can think of is Harold Koopowitz, but I know that's not right.

 

[Trithor]

What hybrid is it? I'm probably having a brain fart, but the only HK I can think of is Harold Koopowitz, but I know that's not right.

You are quite correct, it was me having the 'brain fart' It is MK not HK, sorry for the dim moment, wine tends to do that to you

 

[goldenrose]

Depends on what was 1st & 2nd, it can be a hard category and whatever catches the judges eye. There can be 2 - 2nd places, if they feel like it & both plants are equal. Do you know any of the judges on the team? This is the exact thing that is/or can be a wonderful learning experience. At one of our shows we had a few judges take small groups around to the exhibits & explain why one got a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, what they were looking for, etc.

 

[phraggy]

Never mind the ' brain-f..t ' what do you you grow it in??

Ed

 

[Chicago Chad]

I agree. Clerking is a very interesting experience. I certainly don't agree with everything they say. If the MK only has 3 flowers (it's hard to tell on my phone) I would guess that, regardless of how well the petal stance, symmetry and color are. Also people's personal preferences are always a factor in judging. Regardless of what they say.

 

[emydura]

Agree with Rose. It depends on what was 1st and 2nd. If 1st was a roth with 6 flowers that were 40cm across, that MK would just not cut it. It would have to be a good flower to beat the MK, but looking at what you had there seems to be plenty of those. Can you tell,show us what ran 1st and 2nd or are we going to have to beat it out of you? oke:

 

[Rick]

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31602

Looks like two of his other multi's took 1st and 2nd, and one was the grand champion!!!

Super Greedy Trithoroke:

Congratulations:clap::clap:

 

[gonewild]

Super Greedy Trithoroke:

And he even complains that this plant was beat out by one of his other plants!

 

[SlipperFan]

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31602

Looks like two of his other multi's took 1st and 2nd, and one was the grand champion!!!

Super Greedy Trithoroke:

Congratulations:clap::clap:

And he even complains that this plant was beat out by one of his other plants!

They are all amazingly beautiful. Congrats, Trithor!

 

[Ozpaph]

well done

 

[limuhead]

I agree. Clerking is a very interesting experience. I certainly don't agree with everything they say. If the MK only has 3 flowers (it's hard to tell on my phone) I would guess that, regardless of how well the petal stance, symmetry and color are. Also people's personal preferences are always a factor in judging. Regardless of what they say.

I think that if you really want to learn about award quality plants (statistically speaking) you are better off as a clerk. As a former AOS and HOS student judge and now part time clerk I think I learn more as a clerk than I did as a student judge. When I clerk I look up the parentage of the cross, previous awards, measure and record all the dimensions, flower count, stem habit, and help with the descriptions it helps it sink in to the long term memory bank. As a wannabe amateur hybridizer(only 3 registered crosses so far) it helps to see the potential and possibilities for future crosses.

 

[abax]

Perhaps the judges were embarrassed at having to give you so many
awards. Did anyone else win any ribbons?

 

[Trithor]

Depends on what was 1st & 2nd, it can be a hard category and whatever catches the judges eye. There can be 2 - 2nd places, if they feel like it & both plants are equal. Do you know any of the judges on the team? This is the exact thing that is/or can be a wonderful learning experience. At one of our shows we had a few judges take small groups around to the exhibits & explain why one got a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, what they were looking for, etc.

One thing I have come to learn over the years is that shows (and judges) love roths and its hybrids. It is a simple reality that when people walk past a table with a roths/hybrid, they all stop and gawk. It is very difficult to compete against one of these. For a long time I have lobbied for a new place/award for 'best potential'. A small plant can almost never compete against a mature plant on equal footing,

Never mind the ' brain-f..t ' what do you you grow it in??

Ed

All my plants are grown in the same mix 1 part chopped sphagnum, 1 part coarse perlite, 1 part charcoal and 4 parts fine fir bark. For seedlings and small plants the charcoal is fine chips and for adult plants I use 15-20mm charcoal.

Agree with Rose. It depends on what was 1st and 2nd. If 1st was a roth with 6 flowers that were 40cm across, that MK would just not cut it. It would have to be a good flower to beat the MK, but looking at what you had there seems to be plenty of those. Can you tell,show us what ran 1st and 2nd or are we going to have to beat it out of you? oke:

1st was Lady Roths 'El Corazon'
2nd Bel Royal
3rd MK
I had another Lady R, 2 MK, Yang-Ji Hawk, Prime Child, and a few others on show as well.

Perhaps the judges were embarrassed at having to give you so many
awards. Did anyone else win any ribbons?

It was a surprisingly good show this year, with way more entries than usual. Surprisingly there were very few cymbids this year, perhaps something to do with the very mild winter which we had.

Thank you all for your great comments on my results.

 

[SlipperKing]

Nice display. Is this your whole table full of plants?

 

[Trithor]

Nope, kinda mine mixed with others, and mine on other tables (but mostly mine again kinda scared to admit to plants as I have learned that newbies should wait quietly .............. BUT I AM THE FALSLY MODEST CRAGGY SAFRICAN !!!!!!) ...... and now a timid little mouse?

 

[slippertalker]

The bottom line is that the judges are comparing these plants to awarded plants that are exceptional compared to the norm. There have been several awards to this cross, the best are grown by growers that often have a dozen+ growths and several inflorescences. The plants from Taiwan and people like Frank Smith make it tough for the rest of us.

 

[Trithor]

Bill, too right. However Frank does not compete here, and in Africa we show pumpkin flowers against paphs and on Sundays even hyacinths are acceptable for judging against phrags. Lets be honest most phrags struggle against the clear blue of a hyacinth! (Even on Sundays, ..... Africa is no place for sissies!)

I am sorry all, this was a really dim response!
I think I should lobby for a dim newbie post spot, I would be king! not of the newbies, but of the dim posters!

 

[goldenrose]

Perhaps the judges were embarrassed at having to give you so many awards. Did anyone else win any ribbons?

Judges get embarrassed? Unlikely. More than likely plenty of other ribbons winners, there's lots of classes!
There are no names on plants or displays until all judging is complete so they should have no idea how many plants so & so has. There is a limit of 3 plants that an exhibitor could put in any class.

.....It was a surprisingly good show this year, ...
Thank you all for your great comments on my results.

There you go! When the competition is tough, 3rd place may not be that bad! It's tough, they have to nickel & dime your plants. One of the times I clerked a paph got a 2nd or 3rd place ribbon (or maybe zippo) but yet was awarded (I believe it was Tom Kalina's micranthum). The ribbon judging team nit picked it. But then when judges went around pulling plants for award consideration, it got pulled!

The bottom line is that the judges are comparing these plants to awarded plants that are exceptional compared to the norm. There have been several awards to this cross, the best are grown by growers that often have a dozen+ growths and several inflorescences. The plants from Taiwan and people like Frank Smith make it tough for the rest of us.

Bill - for ribbon judging? Shouldn't they be judging the best entered in that class? When pulled for award possiblity, then yes they are compared.