My very first Fukiran!

[John Boy]

Did it actually ever cross your mind that their concept is much more suited to the matter than „ours“? I for my part would much rather learn their concept and ideas, than to impose an inferior system upon people, who’s achievement it was in the very first place. We westerners seem to have a gene within us, that ignores other cultures properties, ideas and that seems to go down into the small print of their own terminology of things.

Oh, and by the way: Keep ignoring me, my ideas or what I say. Since you don’t seem to be open for reason… it makes no difference anyhow.

 

[Sirius]

 

[Lanmark]

No, I'm not trying to force anyone to anything. I made a simple suggestion, labeled as such, and received an insulting diatribe (several, in fact), to which I had the right to respond and did. The fact remains that there is only one universally accepted terminology (and it is universally accepted - ask even Japanese botanists and scientists - they're using it too). I didn't invent it, I'm not responsible for it. It allows communication across cultures, which obviously the cultural chauvinists who have responded here have no interest in doing. THAT is cultural arrogance.

I see. So I am insulting. Thanks. Thanks for your input about the pronunciation of the word Neofinetia as well. It was helpful. I have to say I think Huiray and Sirius are both right on the mark about your arrogance, and let me add inflexible as well. I do understand what you are saying about the scientific name for the plant. I understand where you are coming from. I also realize that, in the context of this informal forum which is meant to be a place to exchange ideas, information and maybe even bragging rights over a really nice plant from time to time, "poor form" was an unfair and unduly harsh criticism. Wendelin was nice enough to provide you the genus and species when you asked about it, and I provided what I thought was a lot of interesting and valuable information.

It takes all types to make the world go 'round including types like you, me, huiray and everyone else. I haven't lost all respect for you, but I can't say I'll be jumping right in to comment on anything you post from this date forward without pausing for a moment to be sure I really want to go there. Once burned, twice shy. I guess I'm not feeling that sociable anymore anyway, so it really doesn't matter to me any more than my opinion or knowledge matters to you.

We live and learn. :wink:

 

[tenman]

I see. So I am insulting.

Who said it was you? Not me. Not about you at all.

Is anyone here actually capable of reading???

This will be my last post on this thread since the neo fans apparently can't read and insist on inferring motivations and opinions to me I don't have. I have only been continuing to respond in reply to insults and misreadings of my posts. When you become rational it will make sense to you. Until then, there's really no point in posting further. But you should be careful to refrain from insulting people and making personal attacks in reply to simple suggestions like mine, "Thanks. Perhaps it would be clearer if you led with the scientific name like other posters rather than a horticultural epithet. Just a suggestion."

Unduly harsh? In what world is that even mildly 'harsh'?

Done. Trust me, now I will never want to know anything about Neos now or ever if all the neo fans are as insulting and rude (and incapable of reading) as those who have insulted me here. Great proselytizing, guys! You really make someone want to be like you (NOT!). I'll definitely warn everyone else away, too.

 

[Sirius]

Who said it was you? Not me. Not about you at all.

Is anyone here actually capable of reading???

This will be my last post on this thread since the neo fans apparently can't read and insist on inferring motivations and opinions to me I don't have. I have only been continuing to respond in reply to insults and misreadings of my posts. When you become rational it will make sense to you. Until then, there's really no point in posting further. But you should be careful to refrain from insulting people and making personal attacks in reply to simple suggestions like mine, "Thanks. Perhaps it would be clearer if you led with the scientific name like other posters rather than a horticultural epithet. Just a suggestion."

Unduly harsh? In what world is that even mildly 'harsh'?

Done. Trust me, now I will never want to know anything about Neos now or ever if all the neo fans are as insulting and rude (and incapable of reading) as those who have insulted me here. Great proselytizing, guys! You really make someone want to be like you (NOT!). I'll definitely warn everyone else away, too.

I hope you find someplace that is more accepting of your "suggestions". In the future, maybe you will let others teach you, instead of trying to teach them when you obviously don't understand the subject matter.

 

[Sirius]

For future reference...

If an orchid has a common name, it is entirely proper and in good form if that is the name you choose to use on this forum. We are not snobs, and you are not required to learn or use the latin names of any orchid.

Dendrophylax lindenii is also the ghost orchid.
Angraecum sesquipedale is also Darwin's orchid.
Neofinetia falcata is also fuukiran.

If you don't agree, stay out of those threads where common names are used. Even the most polite attempts to make people use the latin name can make it appear that you are trying to create problems.

 

[Heather]

I would counter it is useful to know both, as well as the historic. Not everyone keeps up with the names. Until recently I'd have know nothing about Dendrophylax lindenii, but would have been all over Polyrrhiza lindenii.

A name is a name is a name. The history behind it, is also valuable!

 

[Lanmark]

Normally I don't get rude, but sheesh, that individual just went way overboard in a heartbeat right from the start and failed to even recognize the stank of his own doodoo. I saw his attitude spiking at the very beginning of it all, but I truly believed for a while that somewhere deep down inside that Gollum there was a real person hiding out. Then he degenerated from being rude to just downright nasty, and it was then that I lost my patience and my will to be kind any longer. I can now say without a shadow of a doubt that I have lost all respect for him, and I wouldn't give him a Neo, a kind word nor the time of day if his very life depended on it. Some people should just grow cabbages in the wilderness rather than insult the beauty of orchids held captive in their beastly presence.

Now I have had my final say in this matter as well. Tit for tat. Call me elevenman. I doubt you'll ever see me behave this way again, but sometimes a situation simply calls for letting it all fly and hit the fan with no regrets. This was one of those situations. It was a good splat. Chastise me and/or suspend me from the forum if you must. Seeming gallons of vincristine regularly pouring into my veins these days makes me not really give a flying banana about much of anything anymore. I can only hope that better days lie ahead, and if not, I know whom I'll be haunting with a vengeance. :evil:

I will offer my apologies to you, John Boy, for spoiling your thread, and sullying the joyous occasion of the first bloom on your very first Fuukiran. This time of year is the most special for me, because it is most definitely the season of the Fuuran! I hope you will have many more wonderful seasons of Fuuran in years to come.

I wish you peace...

...you too, tenman, even though at this very moment you decidedly don't deserve it. oke:

 

[SlipperFan]

I hesitate to jump in, but I thought it was out of character -- I don't remember Tenman having posts like that before. Maybe he was having a bad day, and just got in a hole he couldn't climb out of, instead, digging in deeper and deeper.

Let's all please stay calm, and remember that we are all human...

 

[Lanmark]

I hesitate to jump in, but I thought it was out of character -- I don't remember Tenman having posts like that before. Maybe he was having a bad day, and just got in a hole he couldn't climb out of, instead, digging in deeper and deeper.

Let's all please stay calm, and remember that we are all human...

Calm as a cucumber I'm quite certain tenman has some great qualities. He just needs to let them shine again. Lord knows I'm far from perfect, and I do mean faaaaarrrrr. Lately I've not been feeling too fond about taking a lot of "Sn"s from anyone: snit, snot, snide, snark, sneer, snub. Deny it all he may, some of that early snarl was directed at me, and being the weak human that I am, I decided to dish it back this time around. Maybe he'll learn from this exchange. Maybe not. I learned just what a monkey I can be, hurling my scat in another living creature's direction...things that make me go, "Hmmmm..."

Life's a wild ride, that's for certain.

I can admit some level of culpability in the matter. I can also forgive, and I can even really and truly forget, but for once in my life, I'm not going to apologize first. I'm not going to bow, bend or break until an apology comes floating my way first. It might look like a turd in the water, but as long as it's a real apology, I might actually pick it up and float it back in the other direction. Until then, I am going to remember two very accurate words: arrogant and inflexible. They apply. Lordy, do they ever apply! The truth is the truth, hurt though it may.

Stubborn and stupid are the two words which are probably the most appropriate descriptions of myself on this most auspicious of evenings.

Dickens' Tiny Tim said it best, "God bless us, every one!"

 

[NYEric]

I remember my first, she was a wild women taking advantage of a college freshman! :evil:

Fukiran, get it!?oke: This thread shows why we should all take matters with a light heart. Life is too short to be too serious.

 

[myxodex]

It seems this thread has got a bit warmed up. If I'm going to be honest there is a part of me that wanted to wade in on this debate
... and just because a particular word was used in a way that for me is as a red flag is to a bull. I'll explain this below, but first I would hazard a guess that Tenman didn't intend to be culturally insensitive and by way of mixing things up a bit, and to add another perspective, I'd like to relate an anecdote of my own failure of cultural awareness that resulted from my own little obsession with furan or neos as I've been calling them (lazy typist !).

By way of providing some context to this little story, and I'm sure that other neo fans can relate to this, is just how I came to develop such a passion for these little plants. A large part is down to the oriental sense of aesthetics which struck a chord with me. It's not all just about the classification of the cultivars and the Meikan, but about how they are grown, presented and appreciated as well. I'm unaware of any equivalent tradition that has arisen amongst western orchidists. I've even been doing an evening pottery class and having great fun learning to work with clay, not to mention making new friends! ... and all because of a fascination with a tradition from another culture ... I simply decided that I wanted to make my own neo pots. Anyway, I stumbled across a new vendor based in London who sells plants within the EU via ebay (http://greenypottery.blogspot.com/) and for those on this side of the pond I can recommend them. Now most of my learning about neos has come from this forum and the contributions from Lanmark, KyushuCalanthe et.al., and of course Glen and the NWO website. This means I've learned the Japanese cultivar names. The Greeny Pottery ebay site sells them by their Korean names. In communication with this vendor (who is Korean) I asked whether it was possible to put the Japanese names on their site as well. The reply was something along the lines of ... Why don't you just learn and use the Korean names? Oops! OK so I trod in it a bit.
I've learned to use the kanji that they give on this site to look up the Japanese names in the three fukiran books I have, and for most of their plants this is a solution, but for some I simply don't have the information. What I should do post a list of the ones that I have worked out in the resource section ... just need to figure out how to post kanji ? For example Jucheonwang = Shutennou.

Anyhow, I've learned something from this thread ... which is why google translate gives "hukiran" for some of the japanese vendor websites. Some of the translations of descriptions of plants are amusing also. One striped variety had a rather dull main growth which had produced two boldly striped younger growths that looked great. The translated description was "parent better take care as children feeling fancy" ... partly lost in translation I guess.

As for the "red flag" word, it's "scientific". I've spent my life working as a scientist, trained as a microbiologist ,I migrated into medical research, mostly cancer research simply because that is where the money is, and it is a complex and interesting disease. What irks me is when the word "scientific" is used in a dispute as though it's a strike with a baseball bat with "THE TRUTH" written on it in big letters. In one place I worked the director of the division would review all manuscripts prior to being submitted for publication. He had a rubber stamp with the letters "BOLLOCKS" which he'd stamp with red ink over any paragraph he didn't like !

Cheers,
Tim

 

[Lanmark]

The entire tradition of Fuukiran culture -- the aesthetics of every tiny detail including the intricate designs on the pots, the different ways in which the mounds of moss can be wrapped, and each plant's symmetry or asymmetry, form, shape and variegation -- is truly remarkable and something to be honored! What a wonderful world we live in!

Most all plants have common horticultural names and quite often they have more than one. This naturally can be quite confusing. Some plants, however, have had the same common epithet for literally centuries. Such is the case for Fuukiran.

Binomial nomenclature is here to stay. We'd get lost without it, but we'd have never gotten where we are today without the old traditions which started the proverbial ball rolling in the first place. Condescension toward learning about such time-honored traditions in a context such as this is disheartening to say the least. The outright dismissive attitude displayed toward the information I had shared is probably what ticked me off more than anything else. Someone acted like a donkeyhole, and I showed my donkey in return. How truly adult of me, eh?

I need a vacation. I think I'll take a break from humanity for a while. I'm logging out and turning off my computer for a week or two. Ciao for now. Ya'll are a fantastic bunch of peeps! :smitten:

Like Arnold, I'll be back.

 

[Wendelin]

I've even been doing an evening pottery class and having great fun learning to work with clay, not to mention making new friends! ... and all because of a fascination with a tradition from another culture ... I simply decided that I wanted to make my own neo pots.
Cheers,
Tim

I love reading this because that's what I was planning. We have a pottery around here where I have already sent my children and my mother to attend a class . Only myself I didn't go, so far.
I guess now it's time since there is no vendor of Neo pots here in germany as far as I know.

I'm sure it's gonna be great fun to create and use my own pottery.:clap:

 

[Marc]

I've had it!!!!!!

Next time I visit an orchid nursery a Fukiran is coming back with me!

 

[KyushuCalanthe]

What I should do post a list of the ones that I have worked out in the resource section ... just need to figure out how to post kanji ?

Hey Tim, I think you'll have to post kanji as a jpeg and paste a link into the html since most folks aren't running software to display Japanese script.

I got into these plants 'cause I live in Japan, otherwise I never would have bothered. Now I'm hopelessly deep in...

 

[NYEric]

I used to have no luck with plants having overlapping ond equitant leaf structures. Now that i seem to be able to grow them, and because I'm now into fragrant orchids, I will get a few more Neo's. I'm not into the cultural aesthetic, I just want a green and pink/red flowering types.