My very first Fukiran!

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Yes, a very small tidbit which does not change the reality if the plant's identity. The plant's name is still Neofinetia falcata, and it is confusing not use it. There is no reason not to do so.

Only to a Westerner who is not interested in things of a non-Western nature and who considers Eastern nomenclature to be largely of no interest or worth whatsoever.

It would be akin to simply posting other slippers as 'Bob's Best' (instead of Paph.hirsutissimum 'Bob's Best') or 'Green Eye' (instead of Paph.helenae 'Green Eye').
This is simply wrong. "Fuukiran" is NOT a clonal name. It is the name of this type of orchid. In fact "Fuukiran" is more specific than "Neofinetia falcata" because the plants known in the Western binomial system by this latter name encompasses both "Fuukiran" and "Fuuran". Oh, BTW, binomial Latin names are not the universal norm. You should stop holding your nose so high and learn the right thing.

Not a big deal, just poor form.
Your cultural arrogance is showing.
 
Yes, a very small tidbit which does not change the reality if the plant's identity. The plant's name is still Neofinetia falcata, and it is confusing not use it. There is no reason not to do so. It would be akin to simply posting other slippers as 'Bob's Best' (instead of Paph.hirsutissimum 'Bob's Best') or 'Green Eye' (instead of Paph.helenae 'Green Eye').

Not a big deal, just poor form.

Nope not a big deal to you, but not really poor form either. It's simply something you were not familiar with prior to now. Rather than seeing it as a very small tidbit of knowledge, you might want to take the time to learn what a big deal this actually is. These plants were called Fuukiran long before any name such as Neofinetia falcata was designated for them by Westerners. These plants have been prized, collected and cultivated for literally hundreds of years.

It's definitely not like posting just 'Green Eye' or 'Bob's Best' because those are specific cultivar names. Fukiran/Fuukiran is the all-encompassing formal designation for all Neofinetia falcata plants which are registered named varieties with the All Nippon Fuukiran Society. Fuuran is the formal designation for all non-registered N. falcata plants. Fukurin is the formal designation for all registered Neofinetia falcata varieties which have marginal variegation, the most revered form of Fuukiran.

To post simply 'Benisuzume', 'Ogonmaru' or 'Mangetsu' would be poor form since those are specific cultivar names which can apply not only to Neofinetia falcata plants but also to other Japanese species such as Dendrobium moniliforme.

The terms Fuuran, Fuukiran and Fukurin are the three centuries-old, formal, traditional, and significantly well-known Japanese designations which cumulatively cover all forms of a single highly-honored species with an incredibly long and detailed recorded history of cultivation. There can be no mistaking that any of these three terms refer to one thing and one thing only: Neofinetia falcata. The terms have become synonymous worldwide with the species Neofinetia falcata over the past couple of decades.

There are well over 2000 known named varieties of this single species which have been amassed over the centuries by means of collection, genetic drift, selective breeding, and selection. Every minute detail of each plant is taken into consideration when classifying, naming and judging these plants. Special Fuukiran charts are published annually. These are called the Meikan. The Japanese take their Fuukiran very seriously, and now so do people in Korea, China, Europe and the Americas. There are probably collectors on the other continents as well. :)

This past year saw the first Japanese Style Judging of Fuukiran in the United States (Santa Barbara), and an American Fuukiran Society is in the works. This is a growing phenomenon which has its roots in the 17th century (or earlier).
 
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I agree with those who complimented your lovely second photo! I was stopped in my tracks by it! All the photos are very nice. Congratulations on blooming the plant and making the pictures!
I am one of the newly excited by Neos ( to toss around another casual name ). Someone gave me two about a year ago and one is now blooming in my greenhouse. I must do them justice and repot them after they bloom!
 
Thanks to Lanmark! That says it all.

Especially the following I didn't know
Fukiran/Fuukiran is the all-encompassing formal designation for all Neofinetia falcata plants which are registered named varieties with the All Nippon Fuukiran Society. Fuuran is the formal designation for all non-registered N. falcata plants. Fukurin is the formal designation for all registered Neofinetia falcata varieties which have marginal variegation, the most revered form of Fuukiran.
 
Great photos, ... I really struggle with taking pics of white flowers !
You've been warned above, these little plants are addictive, charming and have an intriguing history and tradition in cultivation.

Thanks to Lanmark for the glossary on the F-words.
 
He drops F-bombs like nobody else on the forum. Always "fuuran" this, and "fuukiran" that. :)
:rollhappy:

You should probably also be advised that the "F" is pronounced verrrry softly, and in use, actually sounds to most speakers of English much more like an "H" with a slight "F impediment" :p
 
That's interesting to know. I don't usually get to hear the pronunciations of the orchids I am interested in. If I actually made it to an orchid society meeting, I would probably astound people by mispronouncing every single orchid name.

I do believe the pronunciation for Neofinetia is neo-fin-ay-sha, but for the longest time I called it Neo-fin-et-e-uh.
 
That's interesting to know. I don't usually get to hear the pronunciations of the orchids I am interested in. If I actually made it to an orchid society meeting, I would probably astound people by mispronouncing every single orchid name.

I do believe the pronunciation for Neofinetia is neo-fin-ay-sha, but for the longest time I called it Neo-fin-et-e-uh.

Actually, I pronounced Neofinetia as "Neo-fin-ee-shya" for a very long time, but some of my biggest heroes in the world of Neos pronounce it as "Neo-fin-et-ee-uh" and so now I have taken up the latter form pronunciation for myself as well. :p Does anyone out there wish to give their opinion on the correct way to say it? :confused:

Getting back to the "F" word...imagine it sounding like this: "(f)Hoo-key-ron"
Now practice, practice, practice! :viking:
 
Yes, a very small tidbit which does not change the reality if the plant's identity. The plant's name is still Neofinetia falcata, and it is confusing not use it. There is no reason not to do so. It would be akin to simply posting other slippers as 'Bob's Best' (instead of Paph.hirsutissimum 'Bob's Best') or 'Green Eye' (instead of Paph.helenae 'Green Eye').

Not a big deal, just poor form.


Here is what I think:

On any normal given day I would tend to agree with you.
In the case of Neofinetia falcata I would say that other merits than the botanical ones overrule botanical aspects by about the distance the earth has from the moon. It has been pointed out that it was poor form to not just call these plants by their bot. taxon. I would actually argue the other way around. To just call these plants “Neofinetia falcata” is totally disrespectful of their true history, and what’s more: disrespecting every single breeders work involved with these plants, since the Middle Ages.
Fuukiran is a distinct Japanese phenomenon, and it deserves and requires us (long-noses), to come to terms with the fact that we had no involvement in it’s cultivation and achievements whatsoever. All we’re left to do is to understand its’ complexity and its’ historical roots within horticulture. I guess that it would take the very best of us many many years to fully understand the entirety of what “Fuukiran” means to people like you and me. To appreciate what it means to the Japanese soul can most likely only be achieved by travelling Japan’s Gardens and countryside for a while. Only then would one come to learn about the spiritual aspects of that, what went into creating the modern concept of “Fuukiran”.

In my world it would constitute the highest disrespect to any one nation or peoples, to simply call their national inheritance by any other name, than the name that culture gave to matter themselves.
 
I'm sure no disrespect was meant. There are over 30,000 species of orchids and to learn the cultural distinctions and formal designations of all of them would be difficult, to say the least. I have learned from this thread and now will be more carefull when i refer to them if the distinctions are made. I can tell different phrag besseae crosses from each other because that's what i have chosen to specialize in, I would not be offended if you refered to them as Phrag besseae crosses, nor do I think long noses who develope them would be offended either.
 
Only to a Westerner who is not interested in things of a non-Western nature and who considers Eastern nomenclature to be largely of no interest or worth whatsoever.


This is simply wrong. "Fuukiran" is NOT a clonal name. It is the name of this type of orchid. In fact "Fuukiran" is more specific than "Neofinetia falcata" because the plants known in the Western binomial system by this latter name encompasses both "Fuukiran" and "Fuuran". Oh, BTW, binomial Latin names are not the universal norm. You should stop holding your nose so high and learn the right thing.


Your cultural arrogance is showing.

Interesting to see those who favor and become excited about this issue are turning to personal insults. Most plants have indigenous names; calling all only by those would be utter confusion and useless. Do YOU know all the names of the more than one hundred types of Laelia purpurata the native population calls them?? Well?? The scientific names are necessary for just that reason. It doesn't remove the other names but allows for a better understanding of the evolution and relationships of the plants. I'm more interested in what the name tells me about the plant from a scientific standpoint. No matter how many names the different forms are given, they're still one species in the vanda alliance. I don't understand why that annoys some people so much that they take it personally and feel they have to insult others.

As for cultural arrogance, you don't know me, so keep your insults to yourself. You have no idea what my proclivites are. Favoring the scientific names of plants isn't cultural arrogance on my part, just logical. YOU'RE showing YOUR intemperance and arrogance. Choosing to use the scientific names has nothing to do with the evaluation of an entire culture, and to think so is absurd. As for cultural arrogance, assuming the entire world is interested or willing or has the time to learn all these names of all the varieties of one species in one small area of the world (and all the local names of all the varieties of all the other species in all the other parts of the world, to be fair) is cultural arrogance as is believing it takes precedence over a scientifically based method. There are thousands and thousands of cultures in the world. No one has the time to learn all about each and every one, and failing to do so is not arrogance. A system which allows all to cross-communicate about the plants, using the scientific names is the only viable solution. It in no way casts aspersions on any of those cultures but allows all to share information more readily.
 
Eric,

I don't think anyone would mind if you called them by Neofinetia or fuukiran. How many Neo's do you have? It's not enough, and you should get more. This coming from a guy who has none.

I remember fondly the days when you had to really push people around here to notice and respond to the Neo threads. Now they are commonplace. :)
 
Interesting to see those who favor and become excited about this issue are turning to personal insults. Most plants have indigenous names; calling all only by those would be utter confusion and useless. Do YOU know all the names of the more than one hundred types of Laelia purpurata the native population calls them?? Well?? The scientific names are necessary for just that reason. It doesn't remove the other names but allows for a better understanding of the evolution and relationships of the plants. I'm more interested in what the name tells me about the plant from a scientific standpoint. No matter how many names the different forms are given, they're still one species in the vanda alliance. I don't understand why that annoys some people so much that they take it personally and feel they have to insult others.

As for cultural arrogance, you don't know me, so keep your insults to yourself. You have no idea what my proclivites are. Favoring the scientific names of plants isn't cultural arrogance on my part, just logical. YOU'RE showing YOUR intemperance and arrogance. Choosing to use the scientific names has nothing to do with the evaluation of an entire culture, and to think so is absurd. As for cultural arrogance, assuming the entire world is interested or willing or has the time to learn all these names of all the varieties of one species in one small area of the world (and all the local names of all the varieties of all the other species in all the other parts of the world, to be fair) is cultural arrogance as is believing it takes precedence over a scientifically based method. There are thousands and thousands of cultures in the world. No one has the time to learn all about each and every one, and failing to do so is not arrogance. A system which allows all to cross-communicate about the plants, using the scientific names is the only viable solution. It in no way casts aspersions on any of those cultures but allows all to share information more readily.

Hey, nobody is saying they are refusing to call it a Neofinetia falcata, but you are trying to force everyone to ignore the history behind the orchid. Your arrogant attitude IS shining through in your posts. Instead of critiquing other posters for their CORRECT choice of terminology, why don't you just stay out of the FUUKIRAN threads? If you have no desire to learn the history, move on. Ok? Thanks. :mad: :)
 
Actually, I pronounced Neofinetia as "Neo-fin-ee-shya" for a very long time, but some of my biggest heroes in the world of Neos pronounce it as "Neo-fin-et-ee-uh" and so now I have taken up the latter form pronunciation for myself as well. :p Does anyone out there wish to give their opinion on the correct way to say it? :confused:

Getting back to the "F" word...imagine it sounding like this: "(f)Hoo-key-ron"
Now practice, practice, practice! :viking:

We had a speaker who said the rule was that if a proper name was used, such as Finet, the correct way to pronounce it would be to pronounce the name as it would normally would be pronounced and then add the other parts onto it. Which would make it Neofeenaya (Finet, a french name, pronounced feenay).

But...I think you will find there are all kinds of ways to pronounce that and other orchid names, especially given that no-one actually knows how ancient latin was precisely pronounced with 100% surety. Most orchid folks, fortunately, don't care how others pronounce the names as long as it's clear which plant is being spoken of. I'm sure some of my own pronunciations, as thought out as I think they are, grate on some people's ears - as do theirs. But there's very little to be gained by acting as the 'pronunciation police' unless asked.
 
Hey, nobody is saying they are refusing to call it a Neofinetia falcata, but you are trying to force everyone to ignore the history behind the orchid. Your arrogant attitude IS shining through in your posts. Instead of critiquing other posters for their CORRECT choice of terminology, why don't you just stay out of the FUUKIRAN threads? If you have no desire to learn the history, move on. Ok? Thanks. :mad: :)

No, I'm not trying to force anyone to anything. I made a simple suggestion, labeled as such, and received an insulting diatribe (several, in fact), to which I had the right to respond and did. The fact remains that there is only one universally accepted terminology (and it is universally accepted - ask even Japanese botanists and scientists - they're using it too). I didn't invent it, I'm not responsible for it. It allows communication across cultures, which obviously the cultural chauvinists who have responded here have no interest in doing. THAT is cultural arrogance.
 

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