Multifloral hybrid - would you rather have seedlings of a remake or seedlings of a sib cross?

[Tom Reddick]

I am about to place a flask order and due to space limitations I need to make a difficult choice between a remake of Michael Koopowitz or a sib cross of two select cultivars.

Based on what I little I know of the specific four parents involved between the two choices, I do not have any particular preference.

And so I am curious if any of you, over time, have found any general advantages in remakes versus sib crosses in terms of performance- or have you not seen any discernible trends that suggest one option is generally better than the other?

 

[Tony]

I don't ever see sib crosses available, always remakes with multis. Not sure if there is a reason for it but I've done a couple of Wössner Black Wings f2 crosses to try and find out.

 

[monocotman]

I’d be interested to hear as well.
In theory you should see a bit more variation in the progeny of the sib cross versus a remake.
I’m just growing up a sib cross of the phrag hybrid Lovely Lynne. I’ll post when the first flowers in a couple of months.

 

[eds]

In theory you should see a bit more variation in the progeny of the sib cross versus a remake.

This was going to be my exact comment! Depends whether you want a consistent, good cross or a wide range of types varying between either parent species.

 

[littlefrog]

I think sib crosses are under-utilized (I don't make a zillion crosses but I like to do sib crosses more than most people). That said, the new primary Michael Koopowitz are pretty darned amazing. I sold 6 or so of Orchid Inn's latest at the show this weekend and they were all an improvement over the last generation that I saw. Probably should have charged more for them.

Your odds of consistent growth characteristics and vigor I think are better if you don't do a sib cross. Back to the species for that. You'd get some more interesting combinations of traits with a sib cross, but that isn't always good... While vigor is obviously something you can breed for, with a sib cross you will see a greater range in the rate of growth.

 

[Ozpaph]

why do you get more variation with a sib cross? I would have thought the opposite.

 

[eds]

why do you get more variation with a sib cross? I would have thought the opposite.

A primary cross is an F1 cross between two species so you have two fairly consistent populations that will be homozygous at most alleles. This will give a result fairly consistent with heterozygous results at most alleles and the degree of different expression will be determined by which genes at each allele are dominant or recessive.

A sib cross is effectively an F2 cross so the gametes will reorganize to give you different expressions at each allele.

Except in a sib cross in real life this will happen at each allele and you will get a range of plants. In theory, if you could grow enough offspring you'd get each characteristic expressed in a range between each parent.

There's a neat diagram explaining two alleles at the bottom of this page,

Helios 2 | Page

h2.flipswitch.com

 

[richgarrison]

love it when scientific theory/fact intersects with observation and gut... helps to remove the black magic air around our thinking and behavior

awesome and educational thread... thanx for posting...

 

[Tony]

@Tom Reddick where did you find those flasks available? I'm running out of sources to scratch the flask itch.

 

[Tom Reddick]

Thanks everyone. I knew I would get some really good responses here- and you did not disappoint.

In fact, I am sufficiently intrigued that I have adjusted my plans to hopefully get flasks of both the remake and the sib cross to see how it goes.

@Tony - I will PM you on the flasks.