Marble chips on Kovachii's potting mix?

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Luca69

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Dear ST friends
I need an advice on Kovachii' culture.
I live in Rome, a big city but far from limestone quarry. I'm not able to find limestone chips, but I have found Marble chips.
This is chemical analysis
CaCO3 97%
Ca 37%
Sio2 0,38%
First thing hard to understand is that addition is not 100% but more!! I receive documents from 2 different stone quarry and results are more or less the same.
My questions are:
- may I use Marble chips instead of limestone chips in potting mix for my Kovachii?
- Would you use it alone or togheter with granite chips?
- would you add crushed oyster in any case?
Thanks to everybody


Luca
 

trdyl

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Hello Luca,

I do not know about granite or marble chips. I do know that crushed oyster shell does very well in my application with Phrag kovachii.
 

Erythrone

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Don't think marble will have the same effect in the mix than limestone. It is much stable IMO.

I grow 2 kovachii and I don't grow them with limestone, granite, or marble. For extra calcium, I use crushed oyster shell.
 

Stone

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This is chemical analysis
CaCO3 97%
Ca 37%
Sio2 0,38%First thing hard to understand is that addition is not 100% but more!! I receive documents from 2 different stone quarry and results are more or less the same.

Luca, this means it has calcium carbonate at 97% of the total composition. The Calcium is 37% of the total. The rest would be a bit of magnesium carbonate etc.
My questions are:
- may I use Marble chips instead of limestone chips in potting mix for my Kovachii?
- Would you use it alone or togheter with granite chips?
- would you add crushed oyster in any case?
Thanks to everybody

Mine is doing quite well with granite/bark 50/50 and a little bit of dolomite (powder) from time to time
 

gonewild

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For growing P.kovachii marble will not be as good as limestone, it is less reactive when in contact with the roots.

Oyster shell will give equal results to limestone chips.

I tested all 3 on kovachii and that was what I learned.

And I tested using dolomite powder and it was no better than using high Ca content in the liquid fertilizer.

Best results were when the media contained physical chips of limestone or oyster shell with a content of more than 20% and less than 80%. And Ca content of the fertilizer is plentiful.
 

Luca69

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Thanks to everybody
@ Gonewild
I know that Marble is less reactive. In any case i have put a small amount of washed marble chips in a cup of pure water (22ppm) and after 4 days ppm is 53, so I think that something has been released. Using oyster shell the problem is that they are wash out easily from the bottom of pot, considering the fact that pots are in an ebb and flow system.
I thought to use marble and oyster shell togheter to give calcium from both and the benefits of the contact thanks to marble chips.
Which are main symptoms of calcium deficence?


Luca
 

PaphMadMan

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Limestone varies in chemical composition. It can be almost pure calcium carbonate, as your marble is. Blend in enough magnesium carbonate and we call it dolomite. If it is more granular it could be called sandstone, especially if there is some quartz or feldspar content too. There is no clear line between any of them, and they can contain almost any other minerals in some quantity too. They are sedimentary rocks, so whatever wears off rock and flows downstream or builds up on the sea floor from shells etc. can go into limestone. Marble is what limestone becomes given enough pressure, heat and time. The chemical composition does not change so can be anything in the limestone range, it just becomes harder and more crystalline, so the surface area and reactivity is reduced by some amount. Much of what a sculptor or builder would call marble a geologist would call limestone. Obviously, this all makes generalizations about them hard to make. If what you have available is some form of marble just be aware you may need more of it in the mix, or in smaller pieces, to get the same results. The activity will depend on media, water chemistry and watering practices too, adding another set of variables. Use what you can get, observe the results, and make changes if needed. Anyone's conditions are a unique experiment.
 

gonewild

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Thanks to everybody
@ Gonewild

Which are main symptoms of calcium deficence?

Luca
If you are applying fertilizer that contains calcium I doubt you will see any obvious sign of calcium deficiency on kovachii.

What I observed was that when the media contains chunks (chips) of limestone both root growth and leaf growth increased compared to calcium supplied as liquid or powder.

I don't think the increased growth was because of overall pH or increased availability of dissolved calcium. It seems that the roots benefit from direct contact with the limestone surfaces.

So the direct answer to you question is the symptom you would notice is slow growth without the limestone.
(oyster shell is equal to limestone in this instance)

For marble my experience was with broken marble tiles that had different pretty colors. The colors are from some other minerals that may or may not have a different effect on the plants. Maybe better than plain limestone if you are lucky.
 

valenzino

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Ciao Luca,il marmo bianco tipo carrara funziona bene anche se la dolomite,che non si trova facilmente,funziona meglio....l'alabastro e' troppo morbido e si scioglie troppo in fretta...
Comunque a mia esperienza la cosa piu' importante e' la continua disponibilita' di acqua e di aria a livello radicale,anche se il sasso calcareo aiuta le radici a costruire "la strada" da seguire,e quindi promuove molto lo sviluppo della pianta,senza un flusso continuo di acqua e aria nel vaso,la pianta rallenta molto la crescita...
@ GONEWILD
we have pure white marble in italy and it works well...I tried also alabaster but its too soft and dissolve too fast giveing too much...
The good thing of Carrara White marble that contains also Magnesium so helps the overall equilibrium(CaMg(Co3)2-1,76% and MgO 1,32% mol).

kovachii can be happy cause there is also a percentage of Gold!(seen small pieces included in blocks just cutted) :rollhappy: :drool:
 

Luca69

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If you are applying fertilizer that contains calcium I doubt you will see any obvious sign of calcium deficiency on kovachii.



What I observed was that when the media contains chunks (chips) of limestone both root growth and leaf growth increased compared to calcium supplied as liquid or powder.



I don't think the increased growth was because of overall pH or increased availability of dissolved calcium. It seems that the roots benefit from direct contact with the limestone surfaces.



So the direct answer to you question is the symptom you would notice is slow growth without the limestone.

(oyster shell is equal to limestone in this instance)



For marble my experience was with broken marble tiles that had different pretty colors. The colors are from some other minerals that may or may not have a different effect on the plants. Maybe better than plain limestone if you are lucky.

I'm asking about symptom of calcium deficence, because I'm trying to understand why my Kovachii have bright green leaves, instead of dark green, leaves are thinner and softner than usual plants I have seen.
My fertilizer is K-lite alternate to an european version of Msu, both with calcium inside.
Here you can see left and middle ones have been grown by myself and right one is a new one I have bought just some weeks ago.
What do you think can be?




Luca
 

gonewild

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kovachii can be happy cause there is also a percentage of Gold!(seen small pieces included in blocks just cutted) :rollhappy: :drool:
Gold may be the secret for kovachii. Geology in the natural habitat of kovachii is rich in gold. Maybe the kovachii plant is the guardian of Paititi! We just need to go look where the flowers are looking and we will be rich. ;)
 

gonewild

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I'm asking about symptom of calcium deficence, because I'm trying to understand why my Kovachii have bright green leaves, instead of dark green, leaves are thinner and softner than usual plants I have seen.
My fertilizer is K-lite alternate to an european version of Msu, both with calcium inside.
Here you can see left and middle ones have been grown by myself and right one is a new one I have bought just some weeks ago.
What do you think can be?
Luca
There are so many possible variables that could make the difference all we can do is guess.
What strength is you fertilizer applied at? How often?
My first guess is that the new plant had more nutrients available.
 

Luca69

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There are so many possible variables that could make the difference all we can do is guess.

What strength is you fertilizer applied at? How often?

My first guess is that the new plant had more nutrients available.

I fertilize one time a week at 250ppm (total), using 90% rain water and 10% tap water.
Ebb and flow system runs one time a day for 15 minutes with pure rain water.
I agree with you that new plant had more nutrients, my doubt is if mine cannot assume all nutrients due to some deficence


Luca
 

gonewild

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I fertilize one time a week at 250ppm (total), using 90% rain water and 10% tap water.
Ebb and flow system runs one time a day for 15 minutes with pure rain water.
I agree with you that new plant had more nutrients, my doubt is if mine cannot assume all nutrients due to some deficence
Luca
Yours can't assume more nutrients mainly because you are not supplying them.
I would add nutrients to the ebb and flow. Basically your nutrient supply is only allowing the plants the needed nutrients for one day per week and only for a duration of time from when you apply nutrients until the ebb flows.

At low nutrient levels (250ppm total is low) plants need to be in constant supply of food to grow constantly. Feed them one day per week and they will grow fast...one day per week.

Try supplementing your fertilizing with Calcium Nitrate once per week between the "K-lite" feedings. Mix the Calcium nitrate at about 500ppm. adding also Magnesium sulfate would help.
or
add your "k-lite" formula to the ebb flow water.
or
double the strength of your weekly fertilizer.

Then to further consider why your plants are lighter green consider the temperature and light intensity you have.... are you growing under artificial light? The growth on your plants looks a little thin and elongated compared to the new plant. More light and more nutrients may change that.
 

Linus_Cello

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Using oyster shell the problem is that they are wash out easily from the bottom of pot, considering the fact that pots are in an ebb and flow system.
Why don't you make a packet of oyster shell wrapped in cheese cloth (tied with string)? Then the oyster shell won't wash away?
 

Luca69

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Yours can't assume more nutrients mainly because you are not supplying them.

I would add nutrients to the ebb and flow. Basically your nutrient supply is only allowing the plants the needed nutrients for one day per week and only for a duration of time from when you apply nutrients until the ebb flows.



At low nutrient levels (250ppm total is low) plants need to be in constant supply of food to grow constantly. Feed them one day per week and they will grow fast...one day per week.



Try supplementing your fertilizing with Calcium Nitrate once per week between the "K-lite" feedings. Mix the Calcium nitrate at about 500ppm. adding also Magnesium sulfate would help.

or

add your "k-lite" formula to the ebb flow water.

or

double the strength of your weekly fertilizer.



Then to further consider why your plants are lighter green consider the temperature and light intensity you have.... are you growing under artificial light? The growth on your plants looks a little thin and elongated compared to the new plant. More light and more nutrients may change that.

I thought that Kovachii needs low nutrients, I have some other pk hybrids that are grow in same way and they grow well. So do you think Kovachii species must eat more?
I'll do in this way. I'll begin to add one feeding with calcium nitrate and Magnesum sulfate. Can I mix them togheter or is better alternate one week each one?
I grow them in greenhouse, no artificial light but I think light is enough. Multifloral paphio (Roth and Saint Swithin) are flowering at these light levels.


Luca
 

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