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malipoense x jackii

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Ayreon

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One of my most recent acquisitions. I'm very happy with how it turned out.

/Mattias
 

Leo Schordje

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Matthias
all three photos are backlit, could you post a photo with the light coming from over the observer's shoulder? What I am curious about is the staminode marking. In others of (malipoense x jackii) I have seen, the purple bee mark on the staminode of malipoense had been modified into a web of purple lines. Not quite the mostly dark green lines of jackii, but no longer the solid purple blotch that is diagnostic for malipoense type variety. I am curious. I was hoping the changes in the bee mark would be the quick and easy way to know when you are looking at a hybrid vs the pure species.
Thank you so much
Leo
 
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L I Jane

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I love it!!! I'm sure my overhead fan would have whacked that stem in two if it was in my grnhse:D :D
 

Leo Schordje

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Hey Thank you Matthias, the change of lighting makes a difference. The bee marking while dark, is not the solid splotch of color that it is in malipoense. You can see the color in the hybrid is actually made of lines of color, showing the influence from jackii. I like it.
thank you
Leo
 
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Ayreon

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Thanks Leo!
I only have a small malipoense plant that won't be flowering for a while yet, so I have not been able to compare them.

Mattias
 

Hien

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Leo Schordje said:
Hey Thank you Matthias, the change of lighting makes a difference. The bee marking while dark, is not the solid splotch of color that it is in malipoense. You can see the color in the hybrid is actually made of lines of color, showing the influence from jackii. I like it.
thank you
Leo
The flower is beautiful.
But I am trying to understand the aim for the cross.
What does the breeder look for? what traits does he want to modify or enhance from these two related species?
Further more,
-how do you tell between malipoense and jackii?
-their alba version?
-is hiepii same or different from jackii?
 

Leo Schordje

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Dear Hien
To answer all your questions, generally, I would have to say "I don't know anything for certain".

The way I tell jackii from malipoense is by the "bee" mark on the staminode. In malipoense it is a solid colored blotch. In jackii it is lines, with much less color than malipoense. In the small sample of 3 flowers of the hybrid (jackii x malipoense) it has been intermediate - more color but still broken up into lines. There is a gestalt in flower shape and foliage color that is different between jackii and malipoense. I do not know what the taxonmonic significant differences are.

The few hybrids from jackii I have seen have cleaner background colors (white or yellow or green) when made with jackii over the counterpart made with malipoense. For example (jackii x armeniacum) seems to be a cleaner yellow-green than (malipoense x armeniacum) but my sampling has not been real large. Just a handful of plants.

About distinguishing the alba forms between jackii & malipoense - The foliage pattern and flower shape are the only traits I would be able to use if the bee marking was absent. My guess would be jackii alba would have fine green lines on the tip of the staminode, where malipoense alba would have no markings. But that is a guess, not knowledge certain. Jackii has a lighter green checkerboard pattern foliage, distinctly square checks of color. Malipoense foliage pattern is more of a dark brocade, the markings are not "squares" of light and dark green. I have never seen the alba form of either I am not certain I could tell them apart.

I personally would never cross the two in their normal forms, because they are so similar, little is to be gained. EXCEPT Vigor! Malipoense is nice but a bit slow. The hyrbid race should be vigorous. I have seen a batch of (jackii alba x malipoense normal) (or was it visa versa)? Where the breeder was going for a 2 step improved vigor hybrid alba race.

As to Paph hiepii - The only plant I ever saw with that label was a perfectly normal jackii. Obviously the plant I saw was mislabeled. The owner of the plant knew nothing about where it was collected, or even if it was collected. They were just proud of how much they paid for it, therefore it had to be better than any other of lesser $$$. (W.C. Fields and P.T. Barnum both had great comments on this)

Hope my comment helps
 

Hien

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Thank you so much for the explanation.

The reason I ask is that Leonid Averyanov describes hiepii as having a hook on the pouch, and has exagerated long/ narrow petals (comparing to malipoense & jackii) in his book.
Then later, I read somewhere, another person disputed the existence of hiepii, and show a jackii's photos changing shape to (hiepii) after a few year in less than optimum cultural conditions.
I was wondering if someone could do the reverse experiment, provide the known hiepii specimens with optimum growing environment to see if they change to jackii.
 

kentuckiense

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Hien said:
Thank you so much for the explanation.

The reason I ask is that Leonid Averyanov describes hiepii as having a hook on the pouch, and has exagerated long/ narrow petals (comparing to malipoense & jackii) in his book.
Then later, I read somewhere, another person disputed the existence of hiepii, and show a jackii's photos changing shape to (hiepii) after a few year in less than optimum cultural conditions.
I was wondering if someone could do the reverse experiment, provide the known hiepii specimens with optimum growing environment to see if they change to jackii.
Indeed, that would be quite interesting to see.
Here is Stephen's page on the subject:
http://slipperorchids.info/paphdatasheets/parvisepalum/malipoensevarhiepii/index.html
 
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lienluu

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Leo Schordje said:
About distinguishing the alba forms between jackii & malipoense - The foliage pattern and flower shape are the only traits I would be able to use if the bee marking was absent. My guess would be jackii alba would have fine green lines on the tip of the staminode, where malipoense alba would have no markings. But that is a guess, not knowledge certain. Jackii has a lighter green checkerboard pattern foliage, distinctly square checks of color. Malipoense foliage pattern is more of a dark brocade, the markings are not "squares" of light and dark green. I have never seen the alba form of either I am not certain I could tell them apart.
Hi Leo,

It's actually quite easy to tell the albinistic form of P. malipoense apart from the albinistic form of P. jackii. P. jackii have distinctly different leaves, as you pointed out. Particularly the colour, which is a lime green versus a forest green with P. malipoense.

Here are a couple of not great photos taken by a friend of mine.

P. malipoense album


P. jackii album
 
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Eric Muehlbauer

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As for hiepii, as far as I know, the type specimen is a malformed jackii. I don't believe plants resembling the type were ever seen again, and that most people now consider it a synonym of jackii (or malipoense v. jackii).....Take care, Eric
 

shaw

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er this is a stupid question...
if maliponese is a species, & jackii is consider a var of maliponese, then by cross both, are they consider hybrid or are they species?
so how are we as a begainer not being fool into buying the wrong thing and paying huge heft sum for it?
 

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