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Ron-NY

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Well there has been a bit of expansion of the flower since last measured, less than a week ago. The petal spread is now 4.5" (11.43 cm) x 1 5/8" (4.128 cm)
The top of the petal has developed a bit of a wave.
 

littlefrog

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Yes... This is interesting largely because it is passing through quite dominantly. At least in this flower.

From a judging perspective, I'm at a loss, though. It has a certain wow factor that is hard to overlook, but the form is getting worse with time. This is from kovachii, of course, and is 'type and breeding'. But, that doesn't make it good. Does color and size trump form, or the other way around? Will depend on the judge, I think.

We will need to see a hundred or so of this cross to get an idea of what is possible. Wish I had the opportunity to do that. I only have two, and they aren't blooming yet.
 

slippertalker

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littlefrog said:
Yes... This is interesting largely because it is passing through quite dominantly. At least in this flower.

From a judging perspective, I'm at a loss, though. It has a certain wow factor that is hard to overlook, but the form is getting worse with time. This is from kovachii, of course, and is 'type and breeding'. But, that doesn't make it good. Does color and size trump form, or the other way around? Will depend on the judge, I think.
It appears that kovachii and it's hybrids will change in shape (and color?) over time. As far as judging, I would guess it will depend on the quality of the flower on the day of judging. It will be a different flower a week later but that's another story. With breeding positive traits are often combined with negative ones, but they can be overcome over time. A good example is the vinicolor paphs combining dark color with weak stems. Selective breeding improved the effect of the negative trait.

In my eye, form trumps color and size....If you have a big colorful mess it still doesn't overcome the lack of form.
 

littlefrog

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slippertalker said:
In my eye, form trumps color and size....If you have a big colorful mess it still doesn't overcome the lack of form.
My opinion as well... I much prefer good form over size and color. Although I've seen a lot of big colorful messes awarded.
 

Leo Schordje

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littlefrog said:
<snip>From a judging perspective, I'm at a loss, though. It has a certain wow factor that is hard to overlook, but the form is getting worse with time. This is from kovachii, of course, and is 'type and breeding'. But, that doesn't make it good. Does color and size trump form, or the other way around? Will depend on the judge, I think.

We will need to see a hundred or so of this cross to get an idea of what is possible. Wish I had the opportunity to do that. I only have two, and they aren't blooming yet.
Hey Rob, The AQ are full of WOW awards. You know yourself, size is only 10 points but it tends to be the first 10 points. And just as WOW color in Paph armeniacum "Rising Sun" FCC/AOS, the very first armeniacum shown in the USA, it had only an 8 cm natural spread on that blooming and it got the FCC. WOW will take any plant over the top long before any judge sees a hundred of them. So I predict many AMs very early in the judging of these hybrids. Maybe a few FCC's though the armeniacum example cited above did chasten the judging system. The same mistake was not repeated with vietnamense or emersonii. So we will see how different centers handle these hybrids. It will be interesting. You don't want to make the mistake that some judging centers have been accused of and under-award a really good flower. I actually have seen several examples of under awarding recently and I think this is a more serious problem than over awarding. But under awarding is a topic for a new thread.
Leo
 

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