kovachii x Saint Ouen

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NYEric

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Woohoo! I just got off the phone w/ Mr. Norton and he says a kovachii x besseae should be in flower w/in 2 weeks. I ordered one from him. I also sent in an order to Woodstream so my Phrag list will grow [as my bank account shrinks!!!].
 

Candace

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Ron, check out the end of the thread titled Please remove me from the forum. I find it very interesting your photo is on his page as well....

Edit...I don't see any credit given to you on his website, either. Seems like your photos are really getting around!
 
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isaias m rolando

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Do you know that members of the Portilla family travels very often to Peru with no INRENA permits to collect peruvian orchids? There are videos and Press reports of local police arresting one member of this family.
Why I am posting this? Ask Kyle how many ilegal PKs the Portillas have in Ecuador. He sure had the oportunity to see them when he was in Ecuador.
...before I forget, you could never piss me off Kyle...you are not at my level in international presentations for orchid conservation....and I am not a Misinformed FAT ego, John M. I just wanted you to know some facts that you prefer to ignore. It is up to you. This is a free world. But there is a big, big PK black market that we all should stop, instead of trying to ignore the facts. I just want to be fair with the peruvians working with legal PK plants and hybrids, not only CJM Orchids, and some peruvian universities doing the DNA fingerprint to work for forensic International trade for orchids. Are you people afraid of this? Why? You always stated that you would like accurate info. Well, I am offering some tools and facts. If you want to ignore them, do not insult peruvians or my inteligence trying to direct attention to your coments.
Do not worry I will post recent pics of mature PK plants once I learn how to do it. I have already the pictures.
Finally I think this forum is worth. I do not care if people insult me. They just show who they are doing this...
Have a good night
 

adiaphane

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Isias--

I am confused. It doesn't seem like anyone is insulting you. I don't understand why there needs to be such a harsh tone, and certainly no one here is insulting Peruvians. I hope we can have a discussion without any negative undertones.
 
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isaias m rolando

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Please explain why is it a "negative undertone" to question about some facts that appaerently you want to ignore? The AOS has already a warning and full detailed info, because they wanted to be informed about ilegal PK in the world. If you don`t want that information, please let me know. It is time everybody should know the reality about PK everywhere not only in the US. All we peruvians want is to keep Pk in the habitat, because the legal collection is already in artificial reproduction and in the proper marketing with good growers in th US and in Hawai.
 

adiaphane

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I think that the information can be shared without accusing people. I certainly would like to read whatever information you are willing to share. But I do not believe that harsh words need to be exchanged for that information.

We are orchid growers and conservation is a high priority. We are not robbers. I'm sure everyone here would love to protect this species in the wild.

That being said, please, share any information you have.
 

bwester

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Well, I know what i'm NOT going to do to this thread.....
What is it about this plant that gets everybody's panties in a wad?
 

Ron-NY

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I believe part of the attitude is because this plant has been raped and pillaged from it's habitat. Although I do believe that most of the plants were removed by native Peruvians trying to make a few dollars after they found out that there is a value in this palnt. Correct me if I am wrong Isaias.
 

Ron-NY

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Candace said:
Ron, check out the end of the thread titled Please remove me from the forum. I find it very interesting your photo is on his page as well....

Edit...I don't see any credit given to you on his website, either. Seems like your photos are really getting around!

Candace the frontal view with the black background is a photograph taken by Glen Decker. All other shots are mine. Peter Crozen will be posting them to his site as well with my permission and credit given.
 

John M

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isaias m rolando said:
...before I forget, you could never piss me off Kyle...you are not at my level in international presentations for orchid conservation....and I am not a Misinformed FAT ego, John M. I just wanted you to know some facts that you prefer to ignore.

EGO TRIP! So now, you can read my mind as well? VERY impressive!.....Except for the fact that I have NOT chosen to ignore any FACTS. I simply take offense to your attitude that you are 100% correct and anyone who dares to debate you is wrong. One thing you are not Isaias, is a "breath of fresh air".
 

John M

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Ron-NY said:
I believe part of the attitude is because this plant has been raped and pillaged from it's habitat. Although I do believe that most of the plants were removed by native Peruvians trying to make a few dollars after they found out that there is a value in this palnt. Correct me if I am wrong Isaias.
Ron; That is what I've always understood as well. While the collection of wild Pk was fuled by the promise of foreign money, it was the local Peruvians who saw an opportunity and collected all the plants. It was also the Peruvian authorities who did not bother to stop this from happening. Perhaps a couple of well paid, armed guards might have helped to keep more PK in their natural habitat. Funny how there is money to pour into a government bureaucracy like INRENA, but no money to pay good wages to some well placed armed guards who's purpose is to protect this most important natural, national treasure.

Oh, and if Isaias thinks that you are wrong, he WILL correct you. Count on it!
 
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isaias m rolando

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Ron
Yes, you are wright. Ilegal collectors of PK are mostly peruvians, that is correct. But they were mostly paid by ecuadorians (you know them very well), some europeans (you also know them) and a well known comercial grower in Lima. The market is loaded with thousands of ilegal PKs. There are already hybrids in Taiwan and Japan. This is not new. P. besseae started in the 80s, the actors of this tragedy were the same people. Yes, same traficants acting now. This is like cocaine trafic. We all now that Peru produces the coca leaves, but the big profit in drug trafic is elsewhere. Probably you don`t know that for each dollar entering to Peru for coca leaves, there are 99 dollars entering to an account in Fisrt World Banks from the cocaine markets. Globalization also includes drug trafic, and the orchid black market.
But again, if I am writing here is because there are some peruvians working in the legal side, with academic interest for new knowledge coming from the PK. We have already reports of a new habitat. We would like you all to protect this place. It is not an issue of posting gards to protect. It is more an issue of education at all levels, from ilegal collectors, to Inrena officers, politicians, comercial growers and finally good people and hobbiests like you all.
I have never considered myself an expert. I am so far to be one expert. All I did is to study at Selby Garden to handle orchid conservation proyects in my country. We did something in Macchu Picchu Sanctuary already. Now we would like to do some more with PK and other peruvian species in the habitat.
I am willing to share my information with people who would like to increase their skills growing orchids, specially phrags. For example, I have seeing one spike of PK containing 6 (yes, six!) flowers seats. When the local was asked how many flowers had he observed, the answer was 4 at the same time. If you please teach me how to post pics in the forum I can show you a picture of 2 flowers and one bud from last week PK clone named "Miluska". CJM is arriving to very fine growing conditions to be able to produce 3 flowers per spike in artificial cultivation.
 

Ron-NY

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Isaias I upload my photos to a Photobucket.com album and then I copy the Image link and post it here. I find that the easiest way to do it Photobucket is free. If you need help with that let me know via PM or e-mail. Would love to see the pics.
 
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isaias m rolando

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Ron, Heather
Pleasesend me your e-mails, so I can send you pics for you to post them, ok?
Thanks
 

Rob Zuiderwijk

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Ron,

Thank you for showing us photos of this new hybrid.

These are exciting times indeed. I'm looking forward for the other hybrids that are about to show their flowers. I too am anxious to see what influence Phrag. kovachii has in the hybrids with species of the other sections of the genus Phragmipedium.

Rob.
 

Heather

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Photos from Isais

pkmiluju3.jpg


pkbud1nk8.jpg
 

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