kovachii x besseae

[Greenthings]

Very interesting,

I could be wrong, but I think its besseae x kovachii. If its possible, could you ask HP if thats the case. I thought Peruflora didn't make any hybrids with kovachii carring the pod.

That might explain why besseae dominates so much.

Kyle

I agree with you Kyle.

Since you did not answer my previous question, I take it that you have no idea where you saw the cross listed???

I believe I have all Peruflora pricelists ever published and this cross was certainly not offered on any of the early ones.

Where did you see it Kyle?

Anyone else??
.

 

[gonewild]

At 11 cm it certainly got the Pk size influence.

But Jason's besseae "Rob's Choice" is 11 cm so besseae is already capable of 11 cm. Maybe they used a small besseae as the parent?

 

[Ron-NY]

From a photographic standpoint if you look closely at Perufloras images of their different colors of kovachii you can see the color balances are not correct. In one image the foliage is blue green which is unnatural, adjust the color balance to make the foliage a natural color and the flower color suddenly looks like the "normal" kovachii color. I think kovachii comes in one color flavor.

That has been the consensus

But Jason's besseae "Rob's Choice" is 11 cm so besseae is already capable of 11 cm. Maybe they used a small besseae as the parent?

4" is very wide for a besseae, I have never seen one even come close to that. I know Jason reported that and would love to see it in person

 

[Leo Schordje]

besseae seldom does 11 cm on a single growth first bloom seedling. You need a multi-growth besseae to get natural spreads above 10 cm. I have no reason to doubt the hybri. It does not look quite like a besseae.

 

[smartie2000]

Very interesting there. Be sure to post a image of a fully opened bloom too, thanks

 

[gonewild]

besseae seldom does 11 cm on a single growth first bloom seedling. You need a multi-growth besseae to get natural spreads above 10 cm. I have no reason to doubt the hybri. It does not look quite like a besseae.

I was not doubting the hybrid I was just commenting on the size. It just might have been bigger with the kovachii influence had a 'modern" besseae been used to make the hybrid? Or kovachii used as the pod parent?
(Note... those are questions and not opinions.)

 

[Ron-NY]

I agree with you Kyle.

Since you did not answer my previous question, I take it that you have no idea where you saw the cross listed???

I believe I have all Peruflora pricelists ever published and this cross was certainly not offered on any of the early ones.

Where did you see it Kyle?

Anyone else??
.

I believe both growers have crosses registered with INRENA that haven't come up on their price list either due to poor germination rate or other reasons. Some crosses most likely did not have a large enough quantity to offer commercially or they decided to hold off selling for other reasons. CJM is offering 4 on their list but I know there are more crosses than 4 that were made, including besseae.

 

[Kyle]

I agree with you Kyle.

Since you did not answer my previous question, I take it that you have no idea where you saw the cross listed???

I believe I have all Peruflora pricelists ever published and this cross was certainly not offered on any of the early ones.

Where did you see it Kyle?

Anyone else??
.

No, Peter, I looked and I couldn't find a listing. But I do know they were offered to me last year when I was staying in Lima. I have heard that people have bought dalessandroi x PK. Most likely made with besseae.

But, no Peter, I could not find a published list with that cross on it. Only in personal communication and email.

Kyle

 

[NYEric]

Peruflora AND CJM have made this cross, at different times. Seedlings offered by CJM (Manrique) used kovachii as the pod parent. They were available back in Aug 2006 from Piping Rock.

I have never heard about Pk x besseae from Piping Rock. In fact I wondered why they went to a third generation hybrid [St. Ouen] instead of to besseae which would have given a purer color.

 

[NYEric]

In fact I pestered Glen so much I'm sure he would have sold it to me to get rid of me.

 

[lienluu]

I'm not sure about slippers, but I was told that with Cattleyas, breeding a rich lavender to a red just produces washed out reds. Whereas a lavendar to a pink/white produces a deep rich colour. It seems to be the case here as well. St. Ouen is often a more pinkish flower and crossing it with Pk definately produced a richer colour.

 

[Jason Fischer]

But Jason's besseae "Rob's Choice" is 11 cm so besseae is already capable of 11 cm. Maybe they used a small besseae as the parent?

I said it peaks between 10 and 11 cm. But it has actually never reached 11 cm to my knowledge. It's 9.7 today, and still has potential to expand (usually it takes 7 to 10 days for this to peak, so it could still grow this time). I've also noticed on years that it is longer across, it can have a smaller petal width, so it is possible that sacrafices are at stake when the NS gets bigger. I should have said it has peaked just above 10 cm to be more realistic.

Now who wants to see 'Rob's Choice' x kovachii?

 

[gonewild]

Now who wants to see 'Rob's Choice' x kovachii?

Me! Please post the picture. oke:

 

[NYEric]

Lien is correct.

 

[Hien]

Very interesting,

I could be wrong, but I think its besseae x kovachii. If its possible, could you ask HP if thats the case. I thought Peruflora didn't make any hybrids with kovachii carring the pod.

That might explain why besseae dominates so much.

Kyle

Kyle, Peruflora did make a cross that I bought in May 2006
cross 783 kovachii Tupac Amaru x dalessandroii,
The mother plant is pk but the pollen is dalessandroii, the dalessandroii flower has very narrow petal, so maybe it is why the result are not big & round, the clone Tupac Amaru is also advertised as smaller size pk with flower spread only 5-1/8 inches (I think peoples are expecting the result from a real chubby besseae w/ the largest pk ?).
Anyway , mine is still in flask. I heard that Mr & Mrs Norton replate them just like Chuck & Jason, and the plants grow much faster & better as the result. They also baby them in professional greenhouse.
Perhaps pk hybrids do flower faster than all of us expect (so far there are two hybrids flower already) granted, it takes professionals to get these results. it is still impressive.

 

[SlipperFan]

I have never heard about Pk x besseae from Piping Rock. In fact I wondered why they went to a third generation hybrid [St. Ouen] instead of to besseae which would have given a purer color.

I agree -- I've only seen Glenn offer 4 kovachii hybrids, all 3rd generation.

I asked him about the 3rd generation thing, and his response was that primaries were coming. He also said he thought, since kovachii is "round," it would be best crossed with other "round" Phrags.

Leo, what do you know that we don't? (OK, loaded question...)

 

[Hien]

I'm not sure about slippers, but I was told that with Cattleyas, breeding a rich lavender to a red just produces washed out reds. Whereas a lavendar to a pink/white produces a deep rich colour. It seems to be the case here as well. St. Ouen is often a more pinkish flower and crossing it with Pk definately produced a richer colour.

I am very surprised by the result's color.
I imagine something much richer (but this is wrong of me to think in the way of mixing paint color, not genetic)
What you said remind me of the case of the two color dendrobium cross in Hawaii(I believe orange/yellow) that turns out pure greenish white.

 

[isaias m rolando]

Good morning
As I already mentioned: THIS IS THE BEGUINING OF PK ERA. So exciting!
Probably this second PK hybrid was made with PK pollen and PB as the pod plant. I will request to INRENA if they have ever recorded PK carrying seed pods or even flowers at Peruflora's PK plants, they divided their original plants to obtain more individual plants so they could not use them as mother plants, only the pollen...
But anyway it is so great to see this wonderful hybrid
You are totally right Lienluu. This is why CJM used second generation of a well known pink instead of a pure red PB. But colors are coming. These two first hybrids are just the beguining.
It will be very exciting to see a PB "Rob's Choice" X PK. Have you done it Mr Fisher?
And yes, it takes very profesional care to bloom the "fast blooming" hybrids. If plants were grown in Hawaii...that is even a premiun in excellency for obtaining these results.
Hybrids with slow grosth rates will be blooming in two-three more years. Of course they have been done and are already growing in flasks.

 

[Jason Fischer]

If I could legally obtain PK pollen from Peru I would! You can bet it will be one of the first hybrids I make when the PK bloom here.

 

[Slipperhead]

Folks,
I have now seen the plant myself and here are three more photos! The photo of the flower with his name on it and the photo of me and the plant are by Allen Black and you can see more of his stuff at www.ablackorchid.com. He is pretty good at what he does and a heck of a grower of fine phrags and other orchids.

The color is darn close on Allen's photos. Perhaps the real color is a bit "softer" but it is really close. Mr. Norton opted to not have the flower judged as there was a slight color break slightly to the left of center on the dorsal. The color break was a VERY light vertical streak. You can see the color break pretty well in the photo that I took with my cheap point-and-shoot. The color on my photo is pretty close also; perhaps a bit closer than the others.

Mr. Norton told me that he has two other plants of this cross that will be blooming soon. One is in bud and the other is just showing sheath.

I wish you all could have seen it! It was very special holding this plant! The Triangle Orchid Society put on a nice show in Northgate Mall in Durham, NC!

Garland

P.S. Yes, the internet DOES add 20 pounds!

Nice Photo by Allen Black

kovXbess and Me

My photo showing color break in dorsal.