K-Lite Trial Observations

[Rick]

Hardness 300 ppm. Very little change really.

Angela

A hardness of 300 is very hard water, and about what my well water is. Nashville tap water, in comparison, has a hardness of 80 - 100 ppm and is considered "Moderately hard" by EPA standards. EPA "soft water" is around 40-50 ppm, and "very soft" is half that again.

pH is irrelevant in discussion of hardness, but TDS is pertinent. Hardness is the measure of calcium and magnesium in water. In order to get 300 hardness you would need about 100 mg/L of calcium and 15 or so mg/L magnesium.

You may consider thinning out your water with rain water or RO.

 

[Ray]

A note for the gang - I am down to my last 12, 2# jars of K-Lite. If anyone wants full bags or larger fractions (I use it in 5# increments, for example), I'll need a lot of lead time, as Greencare is in full springtime production, and it'll be hard to squeeze it into their production plan.

Also, don't forget that I have to order a minimum of 5 , 25# bags, and I'm not inclined to do so if I only have a commitment for a small fraction of that.

 

[terryros]

I just ordered two more jars because I am quite happy with K-Lite at this time, even though I don't know the long term results. I guess I will face what to do if we don't make any more K-Lite when it happens. It will just get more complicated to compound our own out of multiple preparations.

 

[Ray]

I don't have a problem with keeping it in stock, but I just don't want to get stuck with it if folks end up not wanting it.

 

[Ed M]

Aaaahhhh a TN spy in our midst. Hidoo Ed! I'm glad to hear that your plants are recovering well. It sure would be nice if you'd join our experiment with K-Lite. Your input would be invaluable.

I'm sure that you all will have good success with the K-Lite. I was considering getting some but I had already started my own experiments.

Tuesday night I took my nice Cattleya lueddemanniana to our local orchid society meeting and Rick looked it over pretty well. He noted how green and shiney the new leaves were (I don't clean my plants) and remarked that the Calcium nitrate-Magnesium sulfate seems to work pretty well. This plant bloomed really, really well with no phosphorous or potassium during the past six months at least. My plants probably have plenty of both stuck in their tissues and in potting media.

I think I may have noted elsewhere that these fertilizers with very low phos and potash do harken back to the first scientific work done by O. Wesley Davidson at Rutgers University during the 1940's and 50's, who then developed the well-known 30-10-10 ratios that most everyone used on their orchids until about twenty years ago. We're improving on this old knowledge with using more nitrate and ammonium instead of urea as well as the additional knowledge of the needs for Calcium and Magnesium. That's why I'm so confident in the success of the K-Lite and similar formulas.

 

[SlipperKing]

Pay,
I can use a 25# bag of your finest K-Lite so keep me in mind. Thanks a million Ed for your valuable input

 

[suss16]

I could commit to take 2 5# ers from you.

 

[abax]

TN Rick, we re-tested the irrigation water and it was 30, not 300. Old people do things like that, you know.

 

[Rick]

TN Rick, we re-tested the irrigation water and it was 30, not 300. Old people do things like that, you know.

It's becoming a habit myself already

Anyway 30 ppm hardness is nice and soft, and is about what my RO/well water mix comes out to. This should be to use straight up.

 

[Ray]

I could commit to take 2 5# ers from you.

"Could" or "will"?

 

[suss16]

Sorry for my indecisive sounding answer... will. I am almost out of my first 2# and the summer has not even started.

 

[Ray]

Just busting your chops. Don't worry about it.

I have more on order.

 

[SlipperKing]

Just busting your chops. Don't worry about it.

I have more on order.

I meant Ray Not Pay! Must of been a subliminal thingly going on in my head!:rollhappy:

 

[Rick]

I have more on order.

Seems to be popular:wink:

 

[Ray]

Someone on another forum was curious where it was being tested, so I looked it up: At this point, it has gone to folks in CA (north and south), CT, FL (all over), GA, IA, IN, KY, MD, MN, NC (mountains, central, and coastal), NM, NY (multiple), PA (multiple), TN, TX (multiple), VA, France, Holland, and Israel. Additionally, three others have purchased the stuff not to participate in the trial, but because (my paraphrasing of their comments) they have understood the connection between K and health for a long time, and are glad to finally find a commercial source of a viable product.

And then there are folks like Ed, mixing his own variant, and there are probably others.

 

[Ray]

Bill Argo emailed me today, confirming my order and inquiring how the tests were going. I basically summarized what we've discussed here, and he responded with the following (which he said I could post):

"My current working hypothesis about why this fertilizer seems to be working is that these plants do not like too much phosphorus, or that they need some P, but it needs to be applied at a very low concentration. Otherwise, the high P will tie up other nutrients (probably micronutrients in the roots) which will limit growth.

It could also be that they do not like relatively high soluble salt levels, and taking away some of the salts (P-salts and K salts) in addition to lowering the N concentration reduces the overall solution EC, letting the plant grow better.

As these plants grow, watch out for 2 things.

Potassium deficiency - you will see an edge burn that starts on the lower leaves and works its way up the plant.
Phosphorus deficiency - The growth will stall, and the plants will either take on a dark green cast, or they will have a reddish color in the older leaves.

Both of these nutrients are mobile within the plant. So, assuming that these nutrients were above some critical tissue concentration to start with, it is possible that as they grow (and the P and/or K are not resupplied by the 12-1-1 fertilizer), the P and/or K will dilute in the tissue until they reach some critical concentration were you will start to see deficiency symptoms.

If the formula is correct, then you will never have deficiency symptoms. If you have deficiency symptoms, at least we will have an idea on how to reformulate."

 

[Rick]

"It could also be that they do not like relatively high soluble salt levels, and taking away some of the salts (P-salts and K salts) in addition to lowering the N concentration reduces the overall solution EC, letting the plant grow better."

This one doesn't make sense for brachies (and a few other coastal cliff dwellers) that are exposed to marine levels of TDS in the wild, but suffer "salt stress" in cultivation under pure water conditions with K as the primary cation.

Also interesting that Bill gives P a higher priority than K even though P was only reduced to 20% the amount in MSU while reducing K to only 8% of the basic amount in MSU.

But so far so good for me.

 

[Rick]

"Phosphorus deficiency - The growth will stall, and the plants will either take on a dark green cast, or they will have a reddish color in the older leaves.
"

Bringing up the old threads/arguments, I used to see symptoms of P deficiency frequently while using MSU straight up. I was only able to aleaviate by adding supplemental Mg (from MgSO4) and/or well water with soluable Ca and Mg, (no supplemental P).

I did add bone meal a few times over the years in response to what appeared to be P deficiency symptoms, but only got temporary help from that.

But the point was that MSU was designed to not cause deficiencies, but I certainly saw them.

 

[SlipperFan]

Someone on another forum was curious where it was being tested, so I looked it up: At this point, it has gone to folks in CA (north and south), CT, FL (all over), GA, IA, IN, KY, MD, MN, NC (mountains, central, and coastal), NM, NY (multiple), PA (multiple), TN, TX (multiple), VA, France, Holland, and Israel. Additionally, three others have purchased the stuff not to participate in the trial, but because (my paraphrasing of their comments) they have understood the connection between K and health for a long time, and are glad to finally find a commercial source of a viable product.

And then there are folks like Ed, mixing his own variant, and there are probably others.

Don't forget MI...

 

[cnycharles]

hey, who is testing the fertilizer in new mexico? they might be near where my mother/stepfather live. someone growing orchids there would be a big deal!