Johanna Burkhardt

[orchid527]

Bought several of these from a grower in Hawaii about the same time all of the FCCs were being awarded. The consensus appears to be that the adductum parent was actually anitum, which is likely the case for this plant too, but I'm going with what the label says. The plant has a leaf span of about 23 inches and has been a good grower. The flowers are fairly large with a dorsal width of 5.4 cm and a vertical spread of about 22 cm. It is the first bloom, but I'll be surprised if I ever see more than the 2 flowers. I am thinking about using the pollen from this plant on an awarded St Swithin and the pollen from an Awarded Henri Dupont onto this plant. Sorry for the dull photos, but it is a gloomy morning here in southern Indiana. Mike

 

[troy]

They look very large, nice!!!

 

[monocotman]

Nice, why do you say that two flowers will be it’s limit? It’s a single growth and not mature. I’d expect much more from a three growth mature plants,
David

 

[Don I]

Good looking plant and flowers.
Don

 

[orchid527]

Nice, why do you say that two flowers will be it’s limit? It’s a single growth and not mature. I’d expect much more from a three growth mature plants,
David

David

There is no evidence of another bud that might have formed and the plant had plenty of stored energy with good growth and light for the last two years. The petals show a strong anitum influence and with that usually comes a reduced flower count. Maybe, if it can accumulate a clump of several fans, it might be able to squeeze out an additional flower. This is a case where I would be happy to be wrong. Mike

 

[Djthomp28]

very striking

 

[mrhappyrotter]

Where I live we call these things "purty".

 

[NYEric]

"The consensus appears to be that the adductum parent was actually anitum," - Good thing, then its legal.

 

[Guldal]

What ever the grex, you certainly have a couple of nice flowers there!

And I'm with David regarding the flower count...what do they say: one flowering is no flowering!

 

[Guldal]

PS. As hybridiology is an almost closed country to this member, could someone enlighten me about how more definitively to distinguish between P. Johanna Burkhardt and P. Wössner Black Wing? It's of course easy if the dorsal is (almost) completely black - but the many possible nuances, that one could imagine as the end results of crossing respectibly Roth x adductum and Roth x anitum, seem to me rather confusing.

On Orchid527's plant my first thought would have been Johanna Burkhardt, but might a strong influence from the Roth parent be able to suppress the influence from anitum to such an extent that the striation in the dorsal is so clearly defined as is the case here? The flower in the link below is more, how I immediately would have thought that x anitum might look (even if this plant too apparently is labed as JB): https://www.flickr.com/photos/8238947@N06/4504517560/

 

[orchid527]

PS. As hybridiology is an almost closed country to this member, could someone enlighten me about how more definitively to distinguish between P. Johanna Burkhardt and P. Wössner Black Wing? It's of course easy if the dorsal is (almost) completely black - but the many possible nuances, that one could imagine as the end results of crossing respectibly Roth x adductum and Roth x anitum, seem to me rather confusing.

On Orchid527's plant my first thought would have been Johanna Burkhardt, but might a strong influence from the Roth parent be able to suppress the influence from anitum to such an extent that the striation in the dorsal is so clearly defined as is the case here? The flower in the link below is more, how I immediately would have thought that x anitum might look (even if this plant too apparently is labed as JB): https://www.flickr.com/photos/8238947@N06/4504517560/

Guldal

One additional piece of information, I purchased several of these at the same time from the same source. They were about the same size and have grown at about the same rate. I have assumed they were sibs. Two of the others have bloomed and they do have mostly black dorsals. I do believe there is a risk of using any recently bloomed JBs as reference, as I suspect many were made with anitum labelled as adductum. That said, I have several crosses from SVO that were made with a dark adductum and those dorsals are also mostly black. For me personally, I try to use the names provided by the breeder, unless it is overwhelmingly obvious. Because of the small size of my collection, the only problems I've seen with hybrids are hangianum instead of emersonii and anitum instead of adductum. It is hard to be 100% sure at times. Mike

 

[Guldal]

I purchased several of these at the same time from the same source. They were about the same size and have grown at about the same rate. I have assumed they were sibs. Two of the others have bloomed and they do have mostly black dorsals ….. That said, I have several crosses from SVO that were made with a dark adductum and those dorsals are also mostly black

Thank you, Mike! Your answer makes a lot of sense....also in respect to how difficult it might be to distinguish between the putative parents in this instance - that is, if the breeder hasn't provided the plant with a correct name/grex tag!

I have, by the way, in my collection a plant bought and labelled as P. Kimballianum - that alone should have made me a bit suspicious, as the correct name for the natural hybrid between P. rothschildianum x dayanum is: P. x kimballianum. I think, I was blinded by my burning desire to posses that specific hybrid. Now as I've become a - a little more - experienced grower, I can clearly see, that it's most unlikely that my plant is x kimballianum. My guess, based on the foliage, veers more in the direction of P. Iantha Stage (rothschildianum x sukhakulii). It's been standing on the window sill for what feels like ages - I can't wait for it to bloom and reveal the solution to the mystery! It better be a NICE Iantha Stage!

Kind regards, Jens

 

[Ozpaph]

Its nice but I'd be wary of breeding with a 2-3 flowered JB. Waiting another 8 years for them to flower and finding low flower count is a lot of time and effort wasted. The 'good' JBs have 5-6 flowers. In 8yrs the standard will be 6-7 flowers. IMHO

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Nice flower Mike.

At our judging there are times when the this issue of adductum vs anitum comes into play when we see the JB or WBW. Because breeding was so long ago and before many knew to separate the two types of adductums, many were labelled originally as JB (whether anitum or adductum were used).

To confound the issue even more, WCSP has determined that anitum is merely a synonym of adductum! They are obviously different in their color genetics. Their leaves are also very different.

So essentially now, the AOS will follow the tag it originally comes with (in this case adductum for you) and judge it as JB. If it is labeled (x anitum), they may (AND that's a big maybe because anitum is not now recognize as separate from adductum), they may judge against the WBW. (Personally if I see black dorsal colour and petals that curve inwards with slightly smaller size, I would use anitum as the parent).

It's a mess really because anitum creates a darker slightly smaller JB with more pinch at dorsal top. Due to the size restrictions, it will score lower or worse be passed. I have seen it happen to beautiful dark flowers.

To note on flower count: there are some WBW with 4 flowers on each inflorescense, on a plant with 3-4 flower spikes that I have screened. This means that on a stronger multigrowth plant, you can see the full potential.

I say go ahead and breed with it if you have the time and passion to grow them. Why not?

 

[SlipperKing]

Very nice Mike. You should expect a higher count on a larger plant. Eggshell posted adductum and anitum with 3 and 4 flowers per stem. It takes more patience with these species.

Jens,
You may have missed my thread of WB back crossed with roth. That flower will get the ole ticker working, wondering where the black mask went.

 

[Camellkc]

A nice one but I bet it is a Wossner Black Wings by recognizing from its dark colored dorsal and reddish petal color.

 

[Tony]

If it is labeled (x anitum), they may (AND that's a big maybe because anitum is not now recognize as separate from adductum), they may judge against the WBW. (Personally if I see black dorsal colour and petals that curve inwards with slightly smaller size, I would use anitum as the parent).

My WBW was judged and awarded as such last month.

 

[Tony]

Its nice but I'd be wary of breeding with a 2-3 flowered JB. Waiting another 8 years for them to flower and finding low flower count is a lot of time and effort wasted.

It's even more time wasted if you end up too intimidated to ever make crosses of your own. While I absolutely agree that it is a good practice to use the best quality parents possible, the vast majority of hobby growers don't have the cash or connections to get breeding material from the latest and greatest FCCs. I see nothing wrong with growing out seedlings and using the nicest ones to breed on a hobby level and growing your own while also growing out seedlings from the big names in hopes of winning the seedling lottery. I'm sure I'll manage to get a nice plant or two out of my own WBW crosses even though it is a mere three flowered AM plant lol

 

[orchid527]

It's even more time wasted if you end up too intimidated to ever make crosses of your own. While I absolutely agree that it is a good practice to use the best quality parents possible, the vast majority of hobby growers don't have the cash or connections to get breeding material from the latest and greatest FCCs. I see nothing wrong with growing out seedlings and using the nicest ones to breed on a hobby level and growing your own while also growing out seedlings from the big names in hopes of winning the seedling lottery. I'm sure I'll manage to get a nice plant or two out of my own WBW crosses even though it is a mere three flowered AM plant lol

Seems like all of these points of view are valid. I did put the pollen from this onto an awarded St Swithin. That should take care of the low flower count. The St Swithin is a hog of a plant, but the flowers needed to be a little larger and more clearly striped. Hopefully, this has been addressed also. Since I can do my own lab work, my cost is zero, and those 8 years will pass in the blink of an eye. The only thing it really costs me is space, and I do have some extra.

 

[Guldal]

You may have missed my thread of WB back crossed with roth. That flower will get the ole ticker working, wondering where the black mask went.

You are right, I missed out on that thread of yours! What can one say, but, even as a bit of an agnostic, exclaim: "God moves in a mysterious way!"