I support Pat Mahon

[paphjoint]

>there is no global warming on this planet caused by Man’s activity and/or >carbon dioxide. While the earth actually is warming to a slight degree, so >are all the other planets in our system,
>>Global warming is a political agenda. It has everything with the United >>Nations and corruption, and the transference of wealth from developed >>countries to selected undeveloped ones. It has nothing to do with reality

MR Birk - stop please you're making a fool out of yourself -
- Now believing that there's a complot behind global warming - is nonsense too but comprehensive from your point of view as people often becomes paranoiac with ageoke:

 

[Mahon]

Jon,

I in fact quit Slipper Talk, as I disagreed with Steve Topletz being kicked off... sorry, but I support friends, and I also support people who share similar interests in conservation and propagation... I infrequently visit there to see a few Paphiopedilum or Phragmipedium pictures or scour for information...

As for my research on Florida native orchids, what are you trying to make a point of? There are too many things discussed... was it I asking Zach about possibly collecting those orchid pods? How could I predict where those plants are? If they were on his property, good for me if he was willing to cooperate, and I wouldn't have to write many messages (writing in order to get straight to the point). If they weren't on his property, he could have simply corrected me... I find that to be an over-dramatic act... and the overall subject an error... and I personally find that it is a loss to Zach and everyone else, as my propagation efforts could re-populate that area in about a year.

Very interesting though, you failed to point out to me who these people are, and why they would take me as a grain of salt... of course, if it is that important to you to find a flaw with me, then keep on going... well, at least I know that I am on your mind!

-Pat

 

[Jon in SW Ohio]

I wasn't referring to you leaving, as you still post there. I was referring to you losing the trust of two people who before dealing with you had no reason not to trust fellow members.

Jon
________
SILVER SURFER VAPORIZER

 

[Mahon]

Again, in the other thread 'The End of the Line', I posted the website with some information...(http://epw.senate.gov/speechitem.cfm?party=rep&id=264027) it is information, and we have 2 sides... so naturally, both sides will debate with each other. My opinion is that global warming is non-existent... other's, and obviously yours Uri, are supportive that global warming exists...

I find that there are variations in climate, and we try and link everything together... this year, it was predicted by our Florida meteorologists that there will be around 10 or more hurricanes... we didn't have a one this year... yet, it was broadcasted many times on the news, and we were to expect the worse this year... it slowly died down after a while though...

And what about the Ice Age, if we can actually prove this to be ABSOLUTELY true... what, did human interaction with earth not exist enough? Did we need more caveman fires? Come on, isn't it really possible that we don't actually know what is going on with earth, assuming that global warming actually exists?

I find that Lance is not making a fool out of himself... he is someone that I personally look up to. I am reading his 2nd edition of 'The Paphiopedilum Grower's Manual', and I must say that it is very informative and of upmost value. I am disappointed that many of you have been ignorant enough to say you would disregard his book because of your prejudiced opinion upon him. I find it very foolish that that is done, yet it is your own loss for not even questioning the book constructively... instead, you jump at a single biased opinion and keep on it (I mean, if you changed opinions, then who knows WHAT might happen)... well regardless, to tell you the truth, and being a very avid Paphiopedilum grower, it is very useful, more so than Cribb's book... Lance's book speaks more in practicality and more in cultivation aspects (hence, the title of his book!)... the pictures aren't of the best quality, but the details and information about the native habitats sure make up for it (elevations and details on the months of rain are very important to know)... besides, if you are looking for pictures, I then suggest looking on the internet...

-Pat

 

[Mahon]

I wasn't referring to you leaving, as you still post there. I was referring to you losing the trust of two people who before dealing with you had no reason not to trust fellow members.

Jon

Jon,

You have a partial story concerning Heather... I wish not to really bring it up here, as I do not want to cause any problems. But if Heather feels the need to discuss the story, then it will be discussed only then.

As for Zach, I still don't see what you are talking about? I don't understand how my trust could be lost from an inquiry?

I notice how none of these exactly point to anything, one being an incomplete story (which I discussed with Heather within an hour of joining here), the other some overdramatic reaction... perhaps you just don't like me, or more so despise me?

-Pat

 

[paphjoint]

>> well regardless, to tell you the truth, and being a very avid >>Paphiopedilum grower, it is very useful, more so than Cribb's book...

Read the title before the content :

Birk's books is a grower's manual, Cribbs book is a Botanical monograph

 

[Jon in SW Ohio]

I never said I disliked you, and if you presumed I was going that way I apologize. You asked why I would say people take you with a grain of salt. I gave two examples of you giving people a reason not to trust you. If you can't be trusted, you loose credibility. If you lack crediblity, you are taken with a grain of salt. Simple as that. I have no interest of going into your past with these and other members, I was just answering your question indirectly figuring you would be able to read between the lines and get the answer I said above.

Jon
________
WEBSITE DESIGN

 

[Mahon]

>> well regardless, to tell you the truth, and being a very avid >>Paphiopedilum grower, it is very useful, more so than Cribb's book...

Read the title before the content :

Birk's books is a grower's manual, Cribbs book is a Botanical monograph

Yes, you are correct, Cribb's book is a monograph of the genus, while Lance's book is a book upon cultivation... I find Lance's book more comprehensive and informative than Cribb's monograph of Paphiopedilum... I find that Cribb's pictures are useful, but Lance's book offers more valuable information (more geared towards cultivation) and pictures (just not the best quality though)... don't get me wrong, I love Cribb's monographs, like Cypripedium, Paphiopedilum, and Pleione... but it does not compare to Lance's book...

Personally, this is the only orchid book besides Robert Dressler's 'The Orchids', that I can read like a normal book... it is quite interesting and Lance's knowledge on their cultivation is astounding! The details for each species is very valuable in Lance's book...

-Pat

 

[Mahon]

I never said I disliked you, and if you presumed I was going that way I apologize. You asked why I would say people take you with a grain of salt. I gave two examples of you giving people a reason not to trust you. If you can't be trusted, you loose credibility. If you lack crediblity, you are taken with a grain of salt. Simple as that. I have no interest of going into your past with these and other members, I was just answering your question indirectly figuring you would be able to read between the lines and get the answer I said above.

Jon

Jon,

I apologize for assuming that you disliked me or wanted to start trouble. Those two incidents, I personally take as a grain of salt...

Neither incident is of any significant importance to me. If either person involved in those two incidents wishes to lose their trust in me (or people who don't exactly know what is going on and lose their trust in me), then that is their problem. In one incident, a question was being asked, and was taken the wrong way... I will take some blame as to being my fault, as it wasn't clearly written, but surely nothing illegal was ever suggested. Besides, I make it very clear and well known all the time that I completely support conservation of the orchids.. I support that information is very important in the conservation of orchids (actually, any organism for that matter)... I also find that propagation achieves conservation of a species...

I must get to sleep, I can only watch Family Guy and write for so long...

-Pat

 

[Heather]

Pat Mahon,
I don't believe a word that comes out of your mouth, and I'm not the only one. From the ongoing trade incidents, to the "research" you do, to your "practice" descriptions in which you involve your "good friend" Olaf Gruss (without his knowledge!).

I would caution any of my friends against trusting you.

 

[Rick]

Has anyone read The Weather Makers by Tim Flannery? Or have I got into this post (or end of the line post) way too late?

I don't agree with everything in his book, but there are tons of good convincing numbers in it.

And as far as conspiracy theorists go, there is a great chapter on the funding and media spinning by the right wing/fossil fuel energy anti-global warming coalition.

 

[paphioland]

Weather is a chaotic system. A very chaotic system. Too many variables to measure accurately and if we try to measure, the error inherent in the numerous measurements needed for the equation will accumulate making the end value far from what it should be. Also we are part of the system so we cannot measure it. The truth is no one understands global warming and if you find a reputable scientist who says they thoroughly understand it without making any conjectures they are lying. I am not saying what is or isn't contributing to it or the percentage that these aspects contribute.

Also, Evolution and global warming are far from the same thing. So to compare the knowledge of the science behind them is crazy. The better thing would be to say is global warming occuring the answer appears to be yes. Will it continue and until when-Who knows. What exactly is causing it in what proportion, too difficult to answer.

 

[the jive turkey]

I have some comments.

Global warming is a political agenda. It has everything with the United Nations and corruption, and the transference of wealth from developed countries to selected undeveloped ones. It has nothing to do with reality. But I, myself, hold no expectations of ever convincing anyone who believes in the bogus science that ‘proves’ the global warming BS. This is all about MONEY!!! (Incidentally, I can provide documented, convincing and provable evidence that the earth is square, too.)

the term "global warming" is political. I'm not sure about the other claims though. I'm not sure if you are talking about the way data is used by politicians which discredit theory on climate change or the theory itself is flawed. For the science, I posted some neat links below that you might take a look at.

Also, it might be fun to see documented, convincing and provable evidence that the earth is square, please post.

For those of you who so viciously have attacked him, shame on you! Where’s the polite debate? For the administrator of this forum to continuously bully and threaten Mahon, I think his actions are reprehensible, … and it speaks volumes about his true character.

My experience with the Administrator has only been positive. I think he just wants to help-that also says something about his character, otherwise he would not get involved in Mahon's discussions like me.

Pat Mahon has an active intellect. For a young 17-year old, I see a person with a critical mind filled with volumes of knowledge. He has ideas that most adults couldn’t even have a conversation about. His ideas of conservation and selfless pursuit of plant conservation are commendable…yet he is attacked and bullied by ignorant critics. Is this what this forum is about? Must be, some of you same people attacked me, too.

Yeah, but when he is having a conversation with adults, posting ideas on a public forum, he must expect that people will have disagreements and he should be able to consider his critics' arguments. The nature of these internet forums(i.e quick responses, concise language) can make somone seem rude or on attack. The fact that he is 17 shouldn't have anything to do with anything else at all. Having said that, I have read several other of Mahon's posts in different forums and I think he will love college.


on Rush Limbaugh

To say this man speaks of moral and traditional value is probably true, but it is hypocritical. He's a drug addict (oxycontin and hydrocodone which are opioids) and recently came back from the Dominican Republic with viagra pills that weren't prescribed for him.

+1

Weather is a chaotic system. A very chaotic system. Too many variables to measure accurately and if we try to measure, the error inherent in the numerous measurements needed for the equation will accumulate making the end value far from what it should be. Also we are part of the system so we cannot measure it.

Meteorology is the scientific study of weather. You can take measurements of temperature, atmospheric pressure, wind speed ect . . . with an acceptable margin of error.
this site explains simply what Meteorology is and does:
http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/eae/Weather/Older/Meteorology.html
http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/eae/Weather/Older/Measuring_Weather.html

this might be fun to look at too.
http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/home.rxml

Pat Mahon said it right; there is no global warming on this planet caused by Man’s activity and/or carbon dioxide. While the earth actually is warming to a slight degree, so are all the other planets in our system. It is caused by the actions of our sun. Cosmic rays, not carbon dioxide are causing the raise in temperatures --- in some places more than others.

and

The truth is no one understands global warming and if you find a reputable scientist who says they thoroughly understand it without making any conjectures they are lying. I am not saying what is or isn't contributing to it or the percentage that these aspects contribute.

Also, Evolution and global warming are far from the same thing. So to compare the knowledge of the science behind them is crazy. The better thing would be to say is global warming occuring the answer appears to be yes. Will it continue and until when-Who knows. What exactly is causing it in what proportion, too difficult to answer.

It's not that difficult to answer:
(this is from the Environmental Protection Agency http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/stateofknowledge.html)

What's Known

Scientists know with virtual certainty that:

* Human activities are changing the composition of Earth's atmosphere. Increasing levels of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere since pre-industrial times are well-documented and understood.
* The atmospheric buildup of CO2 and other greenhouse gases is largely the result of human activities such as the burning of fossil fuels.
* A warming trend of about 0.7 to 1.5°F occurred during the 20th century. Warming occurred in both the Northern and Southern Hemispheres, and over the oceans (NRC, 2001).
* The major greenhouse gases emitted by human activities remain in the atmosphere for periods ranging from decades to centuries. It is therefore virtually certain that atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases will continue to rise over the next few decades.
* Increasing greenhouse gas concentrations tend to warm the planet.

Take care,
Thomas

 

[Mahon]

I agree with Pahioland. Weather is a very chaotic system, and I think we really don't fully understand it.

Of course, for those of you who live in Florida (especially on the coasts), you will notice all the "expert's" commercials. These are meteorologists who have commercials on themselves with their affiliated TV company (NBC, ABC, Local news, etc.)... on these commercials, they tell you "John Smith; studying meteorology for over 30 years, and in the Bay Area for 20... he is the one you can trust...", or something along those lines. Of course, there were ranges from 10-20 hurricanes predicted for this year. We have had none. So, could it be that we really DON'T know everything about weather and things affiliated with it, but yet we try to pretend as if we really understand it?

As for college, I am not going.

And for Rush Limbaugh, I listen to his talk radio show quite a bit. He has very interesting things to say. Is it perhaps he didn't go to school that he is not liked, becuase he makes a few million bux each year...

I am really finding that almost everything discussed here is political, I notice that the majority of you are liberal, and that's basically why my views and ideas are not accepted by many...

-Pat

 

[couscous74]

As for college, I am not going.
-Pat

Yeah, college is just for a bunch of liberal know-it-all weenies anyways.
Pat, your parents are loaded, right?

 

[Mahon]

Yeah, college is just for a bunch of liberal know-it-all weenies anyways.
Pat, your parents are loaded, right?

I chose not to go to college, because it does not appeal to me. Instead, I choose a more gauranteed future for myself, and have enlisted in the Navy for at least 8 years in IT as a Seaman Apprentice (E-2)...

I do not wish to talk about my parents. Sorry.

-Pat

 

[paphioland]

I have some comments.


the term "global warming" is political. I'm not sure about the other claims though. I'm not sure if you are talking about the way data is used by politicians which discredit theory on climate change or the theory itself is flawed. For the science, I posted some neat links below that you might take a look at.

Also, it might be fun to see documented, convincing and provable evidence that the earth is square, please post.



My experience with the Administrator has only been positive. I think he just wants to help-that also says something about his character, otherwise he would not get involved in Mahon's discussions like me.



Yeah, but when he is having a conversation with adults, posting ideas on a public forum, he must expect that people will have disagreements and he should be able to consider his critics' arguments. The nature of these internet forums(i.e quick responses, concise language) can make somone seem rude or on attack. The fact that he is 17 shouldn't have anything to do with anything else at all. Having said that, I have read several other of Mahon's posts in different forums and I think he will love college.


on Rush Limbaugh

+1




Meteorology is the scientific study of weather. You can take measurements of temperature, atmospheric pressure, wind speed ect . . . with an acceptable margin of error.
this site explains simply what Meteorology is and does:
http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/eae/Weather/Older/Meteorology.html
http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/eae/Weather/Older/Measuring_Weather.html

this might be fun to look at too.
http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/home.rxml



and


It's not that difficult to answer:
(this is from the Environmental Protection Agency http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/stateofknowledge.html)


Take care,
Thomas

Thomas,
Typing this sounds rude but it is not my intention.
If you read about Chaos theory and Heisenberg's uncertainty principle you should better understand what I'm saying.

Just because you can measure these things there is huge error when you add all the measurements up. (The error comes from that a measurement can always be more accurate and you can never know the exact position and energy level of a particle without shooting a photon off it. If you do that you change the energy/velocity and postion of the particle anyways.)

You are also not taking account how complicated weather is. Even if you view the earth as a closed system, which it is not it is still too complicated. You can break down aspects of the environment down but you can't add them together and figure out causally how they interact. There is no scientific determinism period. Until the uncertainty principle is dissproven that is the truth. So you can say in a small system that co2 raises the temperature to acertain degree in a vacuum to certain percentage degree of certainty.Usually to a very small percentage point of uncertainty. If you start making the system larger and more complicated requiring trillions of measurements the error is astounding.
At best deterministic meteorlogy is an art/science, like medicine. Actually it is much more comlicated than medicine.
Physics is the science and trying to use the knowledge to predict how complicated systems act and then predict the future is an art.
If you through quantum mechanics into the measurements you are in for a world or uncertainty do to the probalistic nature of how small particles interact. Basically physics is only good at figuring out simple systems and the motion of larger objects. There is still error in our measurements but they are usually insignificant for what we need them for.

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

To comment on just one point...the reason this year's hurricane season was less than predicted was because an El Nino developed in the Pacific....something that scientists will agree occurs independently of global warming (although it may contribute to the intensity of its effects...but El Nino effects are not severe in the eastern US...as you can see, it improves things for us...) Take care, Eric

 

[aquacorps]

If God speaks to man, he undoubtedly uses the language of mathematics. Henri Poincare

 

[Marco]

Yeah, college is just for a bunch of liberal know-it-all weenies anyways.
Pat, your parents are loaded, right?

hey nothing wrong with being liberal and being a weeny sometimes keeps you out of trouble oke: its somewhat kept me of trouble...i guess... on the other hand i did think my college experience was BS anyway.i barely use anything i learned in a practical manner. most of what i know is learned on job. I honestly think its just a way to keep people out of the labor force so that the people in it can have enough time to save up for retirement without having to worry about low pay from competition with people looking for jobs that wouldnt mind being paid less. I think almost anyone, granted they "must" have interest in the particular matter, can learn on the job. The only problem with this is it cuts down on effeciency. And a person must have a contact for a possible position. I bet if people are allowed to go straight into the work force without "technical training" give it a couple of years and all the big wigs making the big bucks who want to keep their pay and avoid the random prodigy from taken chunks from their compensation are gonna start pouring donations for lobbyists to push for some kind of law. paying money to keep money. doesnt make sense but whatever. like the farmers who dump tons of food in the water to maintain prices while people in africa and developing third world countries are starving. and people wonder why theres famine/deforestation and stuff. but thats a whole other story. The mechanics of our society sometimes really blows my mind away, actually any developed capitalistic society that is.Bottom line, no connections for a possible trainer no interest, college is a must. rich get richer and poor get poorer eh? oke:.

**edited**sry major brain fart.... hope you guys dont mind but when i get on a thought it just keeps stringing along and stringing along and along and along. but i must stop cause i need to go read again.

If God speaks to man, he undoubtedly uses the language of mathematics. Henri Poincare

looks like my kinda math! without numbers oke: