i hate the public...

[smartie2000]

The ignorant ones must think orchid nursuries have hidden places with expensive smuggled plants in those blocked off places. Just a guess...I'm amazed of what the public says about how rare orchids are or how they cost thousands

 

[IdahoOrchid]

or how they cost thousands

They can and do. A club member brought his multi-thousand dollar phal to the mall for our orchid display and sale last weekend!!!! He was rarely very far from it, but still.......

 

[smartie2000]

It must have been a very pretty and unique phal then. what cross was it?
I usually think paph divisions or unsual mutations like varigated leaves when it come to thousands. Anyway I stay away from things that much for now

 

[NYEric]

I know a character who got a rare [1 of 4] existing orchid once. Paid thousands. And I have to agree, in part, with the perception. In one [connecticut] nursery I know that the good stuff is isolated behind the 'velvet rope'.

 

[IdahoOrchid]

It must have been a very pretty and unique phal then. what cross was it?

One of 6 known true divisions. He watched the original owner make the cut.

Phalandopsis Arizona Star 'Jim Turnbow' AM/AOS

 

[terrestrial_man]

Nice but 4 digits! Over-rated like so much else, give me a mini anytime!

 

[IdahoOrchid]

Supply and demand is what sets the price. He actually only gave up mid three digits for this one.

 

[BotanicaLtd]

One of 6 known true divisions. He watched the original owner make the cut.

Phalandopsis Arizona Star 'Jim Turnbow' AM/AOS

Is the original owner of Sky Island? We got a compot of Ernestara Firestorm from him which is (Phdps. Arizona Star ‘Jim Turnbow’ AM/AOS) x Renanthera monachica ‘Red Spots’). We kept a couple of them and they are OUTSTANDING. I'm generally a species snob, but this Ernestara blooms and blooms and blooms and blooms and the color is terrific. Though the Renanthera monachica is a more managable size, the blooms on these are larger and last SOOO much longer...

Granted, I don't know as much as some about cloning...but couldn't these be cloned?!!! I know it's not always as perfect as it sounds, but could it?

-brenda
BTW --- I like how the "conversation" has shifted from the public to really cool orchids.

 

[littlefrog]

Should be very easily cloned.

 

[NYEric]

Wow, amazing colors, but it looks more vandaceous than Phal. I don't see why a hybrid should be so valuable [expensive].

 

[littlefrog]

Assume you are a grower who would like to at least attempt to break even (expenses vs. income). Let us assume that person is me, although I have never had the opportunity to participate in this activity (either breaking even or selling an expensive plant):

When you buy something that can be easily mericloned, you are really buying the rights to do so. The only way I could keep control of a clone is to not ever divide it (or throw away the divisions). The minute I sell one, I lose control. I'm also controlling the breeding rights. Neon blue phalaenopsis? I want to breed with it and be the only person who can sell the offspring.

So, if I do have something that is truely spectacular, it is in my best interest to have it mericloned (or clone it myself) and sell clones (wholesale or retail). Using it in some well reasoned crosses and selling the progeny at a premium is also a good idea. If I didn't want to do that myself but somebody else wanted to, I'd charge a small fortune for the plant or a division. Similarly, as an investor, if the investment price is high I am reasonably assured that few divisions are out there and I have a reasonable expectation of a return on the investment. This is what drives prices up to the 3, 4, and 5 figure levels.

It works with everything, not just orchids... *grin* And there are always screwballs with more money than sense who want something just because it is expensive. That messes up the system a bit.

 

[Heather]

Thanks Rob, I was trying to figure out a way to say that and your explanation was much more articulate than my attempt (which went unposted) last night.

 

[likespaphs]

...And there are always screwballs with more money than sense who want something just because it is expensive. ...

i've got this 2004 penny that i'm looking to offload for a few thousand dollars. if you find any of them, please send them my way....

 

[NYEric]

Assume you are a grower who would like to at least attempt to break even (expenses vs. income).

Break even means what? Get back the price paid for the plant/s plus a portion of the costs of the greenhouse and the energy, materials [water, media and fertilizers] used to grow the plant? The 'time' invested cannot be returned. Honestly, commercial growers, like all businesses, are in business to make money. Usually they do this by buying volumes of plants at a reduced cost and selling them for profit. The turnaround into profit comes when income exceeds expenses.

Similarly, as an investor, if the investment price is high I am reasonably assured that few divisions are out there and I have a reasonable expectation of a return on the investment. This is what drives prices up to the 3, 4, and 5 figure levels.

It works with everything, not just orchids... *grin* And there are always screwballs with more money than sense who want something just because it is expensive. That messes up the system a bit.

This is the important note, the value of the plant is what a person is willing to pay for it. If you develope and grow it yourself, no matter how nice or unique it is if no-one will pay what you ask for a plant then it has no monetary value.

 

[littlefrog]

For me, break even means paying for the plants, supplies, and the utilities, and travel expenses for orchid judging activities. I'm going to have plants and a greenhouse regardless, and orchid judges travel a lot, might as well try to cover some of those expenses. I'll get pretty close this year, I think.

The time... well, if I didn't spend the time in the greenhouse I'd probably be smoking crack or something, it keeps me busy. I don't think I could ever 'break even' if it meant paying myself a decent wage and benefits. Not without a much bigger greenhouse and a much better local economy.

 

[NYEric]

For me, break even means paying for the plants, supplies, and the utilities, and travel expenses for orchid judging activities.

I don't think I could ever 'break even' if it meant paying myself a decent wage and benefits. Not without a much bigger greenhouse and a much better local economy.

It's tough, good luck. At least you're not in a service industry. You can obtain and produce a good. I've seen plants you have that are very desirable, hopefully you can produce them in quantity and in a rapid manner so that they sell well.

 

[terrestrial_man]

For me, break even means paying for the plants, supplies, and the utilities, and travel expenses for orchid judging activities.

I don't think I could ever 'break even' if it meant paying myself a decent wage and benefits. Not without a much bigger greenhouse and a much better local economy.

It's tough, good luck. At least you're not in a service industry. You can obtain and produce a good. I've seen plants you have that are very desirable, hopefully you can produce them in quantity and in a rapid manner so that they sell well.

Having been self-employed and having worked as an employee in the orchid trade, I would think that the notion of "breaking even" is entirely the wrong notion to have as an objective!oke:

Even if you had several greenhouses and supplied half the country florist's shops you could very well be losing your shorts! :sob:

What is important in conducting a business are two objectives: maintaining a viable cash flow and creating a cash surplus to allow not only for daily personal living expenses but for continued business growth. These two factors require an honest look at what the business is doing and at what market response has been to its (the business's) venture into the marketplace.

As an accountant that has handled the paperwork for a wide variety of small businesses I have seen them come and go and while some survived many did not. What I think is really the most important consideration that is often overlooked is: TIME! That is, is doing this giving me the time to have a life or do I want to do this ALL the time just to have a life! Burn-out may be the number one affliction that really sets in course the downfall of any business venture. Day to day living demands may make even the most interesting business a tedium of demands that grate upon the conflict between what you really want to deal with and what you really HAVE TO deal with.

For orchid growers I find myself wondering if any really fare as well as any other business and that they are all mutually clinging to the edge and taking some risks in order to generate adequate cash flow for day to day survival while jeopardizing the overall health of their enterprise. This is best illustrated by massive propagation of once desirable stock and dumping of unmarketable stock. The impact while providing for a low yield on a per plant basis really hits hard at the overall industry and adds to a lack of credibility by the public in both the merit of the merchandise supplied and the recognition that it is all irrelevant and therefore meaningless. This kind of scenario has been played out in the action figure industry which has simply devastated its consumer base by over-production and price gouging resulting in the death of consumer interest and apathy towards new product lines.

Which brings me back to the original treatise of this thread. I hate the public BUT it pays the bills!:drool:

 

[IdahoOrchid]

Is the original owner of Sky Island?

He got it from Jim's daughter after he had passed away.