Help-tiny dark-bodied, sap-secreting bugs on slipper bloom.

[etex]

Noticed a shiny wet area on a leaf directly below the bloom of my Paph. Prime Child today. It was sticky. As I was wiping it off, I noticed very tiny black bugs on the bloom and petals. My husband held one one of the bugs up to a light bulb and says they are dark green with many legs.(I may need new bifocals).
The bugs seem either very slow moving or immobile. Spraying with water had no effect.Wiped the leaf and the bloom with neem oil, them sprayed the whole plant with same.
Am thinking aphid, due to the sap secretion, but the only aphids I've seen were outdoors, are much bigger and light green.The plant was one of a group OS purchase last month from Kalapana Tropicals. Quickly checked my other plants and none seem to have this pest.
Does this sound like aphids to you guys and do I need something stronger than Neem? Will keep this plant isolated till treatment is finished. Fortunately, had kept this plant separate for the past week as it was one I was going to enter in our Orchid Show later this month.
Any input greatly appreciated as this is my first orchid bug battle!! Thanks in advance!

 

[likespaphs]

you can't get any photos, can you?
if you don't already have one, get a photographer's loop. they're fairly inexpensive and the magnification is invaluable!
you must correctly identify any pest to be able to get rid of it....
soft scale doesn't have legs in the adult form but do make honeydew (the polite way to say bug poop). aphids make it too.
a photo would really help because there is a chance that the spots and the bugs may be unrelated.
a place for some info on pests is: http://greenmethods.com/site/pests/
i really like them and get my beneficial insects from there.

 

[etex]

Thanks for the site!
Got some photos of the pests.

 

[Lanmark]

I'm wondering if they are oribatid mites. Whatever they are, you could start by dusting them with diatomaceous earth.

 

[SlipperFan]

In my experience, sometimes plants from Kalapana come with black aphids. They're like the green ones, only maybe a little harder to get rid of. Whatever kills green aphids will kill the black ones.

 

[luvsorchids]

In my experience, sometimes plants from Kalapana come with black aphids. They're like the green ones, only maybe a little harder to get rid of. Whatever kills green aphids will kill the black ones.

Yep, look like black aphids :fight::viking:.

Susan

 

[etex]

Thanks everyone for your input! It really helps to have more experienced growers as resources!
The photos were taken after the water rinse, wipe and spray with Neem. A few bugs were still cruising around on the leaves waiting to be photographed.
Definately will be getting a magnefying glass!
Those critters are so done! Made a little cocktail of 1/3 rubbing alcohol,1/3 Formula 409,and 1/3 H20, with small squirt of dish soap and sprayed, then rinsed 1/2hr later.
Thanks again!

 

[likespaphs]

hope you are able to get rid of them
have you used your cocktail previously?
the last picture almost looks like you may also have mites but it could be just a figment of the flash or my imagination. is there a way you could get a photo of the leaf without flash?

 

[etex]

Uh oh! Will def get another photo up. Hope not mites,too! I think it may be the flash, though as the leaf itself does not have the yellow discolored area.I am working on my pic skills as you can see!
Have not used this recipe before. I got it from the May,2009 AOS magazine in the Q&A section by Ron McHatton for tx of scale and mites. Figured if it worked for that, it would nail aphids.The rinsing, after 1/2 hour, was my idea to help protect the plant from the chemicals.
Thanks for your help!!

 

[cnycharles]

one of the only good things about aphids is that they do die pretty easily. and one easy way to get rid of them is to hit the whole plant with a blast of water. if you only have a few plants, then this would be easy. just using some rubbing alcohol would kill them, probably not as much need to use a mix. also i've read that insecticidal soap works well with killing them though the easiest and safest is to just wash them off. wish that worked just as well for mealybugs!

oops, I just read above that washing with water didn't have any effect. if you had a water sprayer with some higher pressure that usually washes them off, though it takes more effort to get the sap off. usually once they are down off of the plant, it's too much to get back up and they are dead though seeing them really dead is more satisfying

 

[etex]

Noticed a few bugs on the leaves this morning.
Would cutting off the bloom stalk and repotting the plant help? That way I can hit the whole plant with a blast of water.

 

[cnycharles]

that can always help with getting rid of any bugs. though I don't have memory of whether or not aphids hang out down in the media, repotting and cleaning the plant then repotting is always a good first step if you have the time and space to do it. since aphids aren't as tenacious as mealybugs, you might be able to submerge the whole plant or at least the pot under water for an hour or so. I think that would kill all of the bugs. I do know sometimes mealybugs can take it underwater for this amount of time and survive but at least if you were able to place the pot under water, the aphids being somewhat mobile would move up out of the media where you could either grab or spray them. if you were going to spray with alcohol it might be good to do it while the pot was under water or at least had been soaked since I've seen some plants cave in when the alcohol contacted the roots; less likely to cause a problem if the roots are wet so that they can't soak anything else up (had some oncid types like o. ornithorhyncum die this way along with some pleuros)

if you had new media in the pot and didn't want to throw it out, you could always soak it in hot water maybe with a little soap while the plant is soaking or being cleaned; after that time it seems like any bugs would be dead. i've read that some plants can be soaked for a time in water that is up to a certain temperature; the bugs die but the hot water doesn't hurt the plant. hot water should easily kill the bugs in media then plant and media can be put back in the pot

 

[likespaphs]

Uh oh! Will def get another photo up. Hope not mites,too! I think it may be the flash, though as the leaf itself does not have the yellow discolored area.....

mite damage can be sort of stippled. a non-orchid example can be seen here: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/T/I-AC-TSPP-CD.113.html

 

[etex]

Thanks for the tips and insight. I didn't repot when I received the plant due to it being in bud. Will soak,rinse and repot in new pot and media!
Your help has been greatly apreciated!!

 

[NYEric]

Alcohol spray!

 

[Lanmark]

I like Tetrasan and Avid miticides. I also still think a light dusting with diatomaceous earth isn't a bad thing to do. It washes away easily and you just reapply as needed. A thick heavy coat isn't needed. I wouldn't put it on the bud, but halfway or 2/3 up the bud stem likely wouldn't hurt. It's easily applied with a duster, or place some in a clean, dry, empty hot dog stand style ketchup/mustard squeeze bottle and puff it onto the plant using that. Don't breathe the dust! The stuff kills by getting into the "armpits" and fatally scratching the exoskeleton of insects as they walk through it causing them to die of dehydration.

There are many kinds of mites, and most types you find on plants do cause damage. Some cause very little, if any, damage. Most Oribatid mites, for example, primarily eat decaying organic matter in and around the roots of plants and are often an integral part of a healthy micro-biosystem. Sometimes if they get really hungery they will do some very minor munching on plant parts, but it isn't much or often. One of the things Oribatids like to do is come out and sun themselves for a while during daylight hours. You might see the little shiny black spots out and about, but if they see you they will quickly move back down into the roots.

 

[etex]

hope you are able to get rid of them
have you used your cocktail previously?
the last picture almost looks like you may also have mites but it could be just a figment of the flash or my imagination. is there a way you could get a photo of the leaf without flash?

Here's the photo requested. The background is a revolting close up of the Rec room carpet.This photo I did not take!
Lanmark-Thanks for the tip on the diatomaceous earth. I did some reading up yesterday on the orbatid mites after your post.Don't think I want anything called a sarcoptiformes on my plants!

 

[likespaphs]

i don't see any evidence of mite damage
sorry about that....

 

[etex]

That's great! Thank you for your help and taking a closer look!

 

[NYEric]

If you squash the pests and they leave a green stain odds are it's aphids.