helenae & hermannii

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Dear Leo,
I can really agree with you. Paph. hermannii is a distinct species.
Here 2 different clones

herrmanniiverschKlone.jpg


When you see the hybrid between hirsutissimum and henryanum, Paph. Frank Zettle, then you cannot have the idea that this could be herrmannii.

Best greetings

Olaf
 
i really can't see how u get a hermannii
2233772457_977a096c67.jpg


from a hirsutissimum...
 

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Dear Tim,
here a picture of
Paphiopedilum Frank Zettle - henryanum X hirsutissimum

PaphiopedilumFrankZettle-henryanumx.jpg


I have seen also another clone and both are so different from Paph. herrmannii.

Best greetings

Olaf
 
So far nobody has shown me the traits that suggest henryanum?, there are NO spots anywhere in the hermanii I have seen.

Thanks Leo. Fascinating input as always. I agree with you that it appears to be a species irrespective of whether it has originated from a hybrid.

In relation to henryanum traits. To my untrained eye and based purely on photos, the pouch seems a lot like henryanum both in terms of colour and shape. Also brown petals and the outer green dorsal are very similar in colour. Spots do appear to be a pretty dominant trait in henryanum hybrids but then my recent helenae x henryanum cross was basically spotless (apart from a few tiny spots at the bottom of the dorsal).

I agree hermanii is pretty cute. I'll have to try and pick one up. Taiwan nurseries sell flasks of this species very cheaply. Next order hopefully.

David
 
Thanks Olaf very much for the images. They are very helpful.

Thanks David, you know after I posted saying I did not see ANY henryanum I thought to myself - that is a bit strong of a statement, I should have softened it a little. But really, there are traits shared in common with all of the Paphiopedilum section of the Paphs. Compare any 2 species from this section and you will be able to find several traits that are quite similar. For example the staminode of charlesworthii, villosum, hermanii & helenae all have that dimple in the center. Ruffled petal edges are shared between tranlinianum, spicerianum & insigne. Pink pouches - hermanii & henryanum. One could go on. So clearly it is correct to put hermanii in the Paphiopedilum section. And I think it should stand as a species.
Great discussion. Thanks for getting this started Rose.
 
i see far more similarities from tranlienianum e.g. the shape of the staminoidal shield, top of the dorsal, colours... where does tranlienianum come from? could that be a parent that gives the wavy petals?
 
tranlienianum comes also from Vietnam. but I think it is so different from herrmannii, especially in the lip. When you would see both side by side then you would never have this idea

Best greetings

Olaf
 
lucky for me i subscribe to hermannii being a species

still it's interesting to postulate hybrid origins even if only to stir the pot :evil:
 
This is a great discussion - thanks, Rose, for starting this off. I got a hermanii back in February and I'm really looking forward to seeing its flowers.
 

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