Heavy fire in Malibu
- Thread starter Berthold
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It is too soon to tell if local emergency management screwed up the evacuation. The area is bone dry and has years of accumulated underbrush. The strong winds make it impossible to stop the fire. I think this one was moving too fast to get out of the way. My daughter was nearly caught in a forest fire in Colorado a few years ago. The authorities came around and told them to be prepared to evacuate in a few hours and then came back a few minutes later and said GO NOW!!! The fire had jumped the ridge. By the time they got out to the main road, the traffic was jammed up with everyone trying to leave. The fire was on both sides of the road with embers blowing overhead. Fortunately, no one died that day.
There may be an issue in forest management where small fires that would normally burn along the ground are put out as soon as they start. This leads to the accumulation of a lot of tinder on the forest floor, so when the fire does get out of control, the entire tree catches on fire. You then end up with fire storms.
We have a problem in the western mountains with the pine bark beetles killing the trees, because it doesn't get cold enough anymore in the winters to kill the beetles. The forest service is doing a pretty good job of cutting down these trees near populated areas, but there are millions of dead trees. So because of all of the dead trees and the accumulated tinder and the dry conditions, we will probably be seeing these fires for years. Mike
There may be an issue in forest management where small fires that would normally burn along the ground are put out as soon as they start. This leads to the accumulation of a lot of tinder on the forest floor, so when the fire does get out of control, the entire tree catches on fire. You then end up with fire storms.
We have a problem in the western mountains with the pine bark beetles killing the trees, because it doesn't get cold enough anymore in the winters to kill the beetles. The forest service is doing a pretty good job of cutting down these trees near populated areas, but there are millions of dead trees. So because of all of the dead trees and the accumulated tinder and the dry conditions, we will probably be seeing these fires for years. Mike
Yes, that seems to be the major problem.
In Greece there was the same situation. But now they even burn down every year little amount of tinder.
Second problem I see in regulation for the buildings.
In Germany each building must be safe against fire attack, which also means a minimum distance between house and trees.
Even the tree houses at Hambacher Forrest were cleared by the police with the argument of missing fire protection.
I think they are right about being safe against fire. The homes that burned around my daughters home had wood shake roofs or trees too close to the houses.
That said, I believe the big fire in California has burned homes with tile roofs, and it has burned all of the homes in some communities regardless of their landscaping.
The fires really are becoming an issue out west. We've had to make detours during two of our recent vacations because of fires. I've also had to delay backpacking trips because of nearby fires. I didn't want to get caught in a remote location on foot. Mike
That said, I believe the big fire in California has burned homes with tile roofs, and it has burned all of the homes in some communities regardless of their landscaping.
The fires really are becoming an issue out west. We've had to make detours during two of our recent vacations because of fires. I've also had to delay backpacking trips because of nearby fires. I didn't want to get caught in a remote location on foot. Mike
ehanes7612
Well-Known Member
These fires have nothing to do with forest mismanagement as they are in developed areas .. too much development and naturally dry areas don’t mix well ... not to mention drier than usual conditions
It is called mismanagement, if forest management doesn't fit to much developement in dry areas. What about regulations of fire protection of the buildings?
Ehanes
I believe the fire started in the Plumas National Forest.
Mike
I believe the fire started in the Plumas National Forest.
Mike
troy
Well-Known Member
Donald trump caused my grandmas bunions to flare up!!!!!!!!!!
ehanes7612
Well-Known Member
okay, well, I thought you would broaden the definition
and as far as the second.....in many places where those fires happen, people don't want regulations..the less the better...just like how there are lack of proper building codes in Houston area for flooding, Oklahoma (no basements) for tornadoes...hell, in Seattle the city leaves it up to the builder to make sure their hi rise buildings wont collapse...the city does not even check
and Strict codes for housing costs money..you roll the dice with most housing because developers want cheap and fast..no matter the danger..they wont be living there
I remember the Berkeley/ Oakland Hills fires a while back (1991?..I was living in Newark , Ca) ..every house burned down except one...it was owned by an architect who made the house out of concrete, knowing the area could be destroyed by a fire
There was guy in Eastern Wa in 2015 who made his house into a concrete dome..it survived the devastating fires we had
I would never live in a fire prone area unless I could build it to resist fire just like if I lived near the beach in Hawaii, my house would be on stilts ...makes no sense to me...humans are kinda stupid
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ehanes7612
Well-Known Member
fires in malibu started in those hills north of LA..which happens very often and is part of the natural cycle but given the extra dry conditions, strong winds and development ,..perfect recipe for fires
The Camp Fire did start in a rural area but the development is encroaching more and more into those forested areas, especially the foothills...I have driven a lot through those areas ...lots of sprawl..same as in the Puget Sound (but we are much wetter) You have fires in the Sierras where there is no development (except for logging) that are happening with greater frequency because of terrible forest thinning practices that has been going on for a century as well as drier conditions...but what's happening around Chico , areas like Paradise...has more to do with urban/suburban development...you put more people in an area, more chance for a spark..just like the cause of the devastating fire over the summer near Shasta/Redding was started by a steel rim of a wheel causing sparks after the tire blew out (The Carr Fire)
What I read is the Woolsey fire began in a hilly terrain overgrown with dense Chaparral shrubbery north of Los Angeles. Because it hasn't rained in Southern California since May, the man-high bushwork had completely dried up, and the flames could spread explosively.
I my eyes it is a typical fatal forest mismanagement. Administration just did not learn.
Since the devastating fires in Yellowstone National Park in the Eighties, park fire departments have only extinguished fires when they threaten buildings or valuable natural monuments. This reduces large swaths of dead and undergrowth, and future wildfires find less food. In part, fire departments even put controlled fires in the national parks to burn off the undergrowth.
As I remember the Malibu area always was a very dry scenery.
About 40 years ago the people were not allowed to wash their Rolls Royce and to refill their pools due to dryness and water shortage.
Sorry but if more than 30 people were killed in an overcrowded extra dry forest area it is not a natural catastrophe. It is men made of course.
I my eyes it is a typical fatal forest mismanagement. Administration just did not learn.
Since the devastating fires in Yellowstone National Park in the Eighties, park fire departments have only extinguished fires when they threaten buildings or valuable natural monuments. This reduces large swaths of dead and undergrowth, and future wildfires find less food. In part, fire departments even put controlled fires in the national parks to burn off the undergrowth.
As I remember the Malibu area always was a very dry scenery.
About 40 years ago the people were not allowed to wash their Rolls Royce and to refill their pools due to dryness and water shortage.
Sorry but if more than 30 people were killed in an overcrowded extra dry forest area it is not a natural catastrophe. It is men made of course.
I have no comment on this, but interestingly Axl Rose apparently does:
https://grist.org/article/axl-rose-...mail&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=daily
https://grist.org/article/axl-rose-...mail&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=daily
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Over-development in potentially unsafe, fire-prone, areas!
ehanes7612
Well-Known Member
is someone saying that it is a natural catastrophe?
Yes of course, a lot of people say the main reason is climate change with more and more dry periods.
Even fire assurances use this argument to raise their prizes.
KyushuCalanthe
Just call me Tom
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Welcome to the jungle!
I am sad for those who have lost their lives and property. That said, if you build using match sticks, in the midst of other match sticks, then there is an obvious result.
It is horrendous how people have been caught and burned by the wind blown fire.... but watch how quickly people will rebuild on the ashes of unfound burned people
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It is horrendous how people have been caught and burned by the wind blown fire.... but watch how quickly people will rebuild on the ashes of unfound burned people
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ehanes7612
Well-Known Member
you just have to keep trying to wiggle that argument into a thread,.. I dont think you really care about anything other than continuing that conversation
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troy
Well-Known Member
Donald trump started the fires.
ehanes7612
Well-Known Member
surprised he hasn't blamed it on the democrats or CNN
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