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TheLorax

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U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service issued a final rule recently revising the U.S. regulations governing implementation of CITES in the USA.

http://www.fws.gov/policy/library/07-3960.pdf

The new regulations will be in effect next week.

If we thought there was a lot of plant material coming in dying in holding areas or slated to be incinerated before because of people attempting to circumvent the system... wait until the new regulations are in place and being enforced.

It's 94 pages long and is a good read but pretty much spells it out. Sad that it has come to this. I would have preferred education and personal responsibility over more government regulation.
 

TheLorax

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I have a personal friend, like me, who has all his ducks in a row in the permit department. He could import and export legally. Last year he ordered plants from an individual who claimed to have all of his ducks in a row. Evidently the sender told some untruths to be able to sell to my friend. The seller chose to label the box he was shipping to my friend as crafts. Willful and intentional mislabeling of boxes has become common practice as many slipped through in the past. Although my friend was innocent and had the appropriate paperwork on his end, it was a big mess costing him around $7,500. I can put you in contact with him for the details if you would like, it's really a crying shame because he was legitimate... his seller wasn't. There was another friend of mine who also got nailed. His order of seeds was shipped to him disguised as a wreath. The seller had laced the seeds throughout the twisted bramble of a decorative door wreath but had described the contents appropriately on the customs documents. I thought that was rather creative. Total cost to that friend was about $4,500 in legal fees but that friend was able to retain his import and export privileges.

The last time I placed an order for plants, I got a call from the USDA. They stated they were detaining my order for a bit. They detained it so they could call in a specialist to match up the plants in the box with the list of plants that had been declared as having been inspected by the Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service's list that accompanied my order. I asked the guy to please water my plants or they'd die. I think he actually did and for this I am very grateful. I received my plants a week later and only lost a few.

I must admit I'm not going to be ordering anything from anyone unless I have dealt with them before. Last thing in the world I need is somebody slipping a gift plant or two that I wouldn't have known existed to declare on my original paperwork into my order.
 

TheLorax

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Sorry gonewild, I didn't see your post because I was typing. Please go to the very last page of the document and read Section 23.92. That about sums it up. We're talking major gridlock here.
 

Hien

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Sorry gonewild, I didn't see your post because I was typing. Please go to the very last page of the document and read Section 23.92. That about sums it up. We're talking major gridlock here.
I almost gave up at the beginning when I see the part crocodile & its meat...
So I go all the way to the end, and behold, if it is true, I see the same thing at 23.92.
Darn, does that mean that now the US can finally import all orchid in flasks regardless hybrid Or species ?
or I am I missing/misread something here?
 
G

goldenrose

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I interpret as you do Hien - one would think so but I'm not holding my breath on it!
 

TheLorax

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Not exactly.
§ 23.92 Are any wildlife or plants, and their
parts, products, or derivatives, exempt?
(a) All living or dead wildlife and
plants in Appendix I, II, and III and all
their readily recognizable parts,
products, and derivatives must meet the
requirements of CITES and this part,
except as indicated in paragraph (b) of
this section.
(b) The following are exempt from the
requirements of CITES and do not need
CITES documents. You may be required
to demonstrate that your specimen
qualifies as exempt under this section.

For specimens that are exempt from
CITES requirements, you must still
follow the clearance requirements for
wildlife in part 14 of this subchapter
and for plants in part 24 of this
subchapter and 7 CFR parts 319, 352,
and 355.

(1) Appendix-III wildlife and
Appendix-II or -III plants.
(i) Where an annotation designates
what is excluded from CITES
requirements, any part, product, or
derivative that is specifically excluded.
(ii) Where an annotation designates
what is covered by the Treaty, all parts,
products, or derivatives that are not
designated.
(2) Plant hybrids.
(i) Seeds and pollen (including
pollinia), cut flowers, and flasked
seedlings or tissue cultures of hybrids
that qualify as artificially propagated
(see § 23.64) and that were produced
from one or more Appendix-I species or
taxa that are not annotated to
specifically include hybrids in the
CITES list.
(ii) Specimens of an Appendix-II or
-III plant taxon with an annotation that
specifically excludes hybrids.
(3) Flasked seedlings of Appendix-I
orchids. Flasked seedlings of an
Appendix-I orchid species that qualify
as artificially propagated (see § 23.64).
(4) Marine specimens listed in
Appendix II that are protected under
another treaty, convention, or
international agreement which was in
force on July 1, 1975 as provided in §
23.39(d).
(5) Coral sand and coral fragments as
defined in § 23.5.
(6) Personal and household effects as
provided in § 23.15.
(7) Urine, feces, and synthetically
derived DNA as provided in § 23.16.
(8) Certain wildlife hybrids as
provided in § 23.43.
Dated: May 17, 2007.
Todd Willens,
Acting Assistant Secretary for Fish and
Wildlife and Parks.
[FR Doc. 07–3960; Filed 8–22–07; 8:45 am]
BILLING CODE 4310–55–S
Best to note the existence of the word specimen throughout this document and best to call them yourself because you would still need all your ducks in a row... on both sides of any transaction.

More information as well as contact information here-
http://www.fws.gov/endangered/wildlife.html
Incredibly, you can talk with a real live human being should you feel the need to call. They also helped me fill out permits the first time I applied.
 

Hien

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Plants in flasks are obvious artificially created according to this document, is it not?


Not exactly.

Best to note the existence of the word specimen throughout this document and best to call them yourself because you would still need all your ducks in a row... on both sides of any transaction.

More information as well as contact information here-
http://www.fws.gov/endangered/wildlife.html
Incredibly, you can talk with a real live human being should you feel the need to call. They also helped me fill out permits the first time I applied.
 

TheLorax

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I thought I'd share two personal messages that are currently in my inbox. I've blocked out personally identifying information and won't be responding to either message for obvious reasons, the first individual obviously knows there are issues with CITES so I guess I'm just supposed to label the seed as vacuum dust and mail it to him/her??? Forget that I just planted these plants and that they were a gift and that I don't even know if they'll survive to bloom next spring or not...

XXXXXX Join Date: XXXXXX 2007
Posts: 0

Cyp acaule

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear sir - I am a XXXXXX living in XXXXXX part of XXXXX- I do have a stong interest in Orchids and are growing several Cyps at home in my garden. I am interested in trying C acaule and are searching for seeds (because of CITES difficulties) to try to establish a group in my garden. Our environment is ok - low PH - needle wood etc. Perhaps a bit wet but I will try to manage. Do you know if any have seed, preferable some pods. ??? Yours sincerely XXXXXX
And here's another one wanting seeds, didn't realize C. acaule was so popular-
I myself made some crossing this year - I kept some of the pollen cold 2-4 celcius fo 5-7 days - I also froze some for 3 weeks - and successfully made crossings which produced seeds. I used Cyp farrei as motherplant with "big red machranthum", yatabeanum and yellow calceouls. I also crossed with Regina as motherplants with farreri, "big red machranthum" and some differnt coloured flavum. (my white ones was used to cross with kentuckiense but failed - this was in XXXXXX) I have sent the seed for culture and hope that they will grow.

XXXXXX
XXXXXX
I share this because somebody evidently already shared seed of kentuciense with him/her and it really might not be a good idea to try to share or accept anything with these people right about now. Orchid seeds are like dust and are some of the smallest seeds I've ever seen and if these people think that our inspectors haven't been trained to spot questionable seed, they're fooling themselves. It's our rears on the line whether we are on the receiving end or the sending end of any transaction. Doesn't look as if the US is screwing around any more. Please be careful people. It's human nature to want to share but truly might not be a good idea to do so across borders these days regardless of what has gone on between friends in the past.

Admins, please feel free to go in my personal messages to see who these messages are from.
 

bwester

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Yeah... Lauren, we dont invade others private space.
I'm glad you're here, BTW. your the ****. :)
 

TheLorax

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Incredibly, I received those two PMs today after I started this thread. What timing.

I don't want any one of us hurt. My one friend has little kids and a wife who has some serious on going health issues that they struggle to deal with as it is. That $7,500 probably meant a second mortgage on their home... with little kids in the household. He had to take a plea all because of how the sender labeled the shipment.

And kentuckiense, you are welcome to my password since you're an Admin. Sorry, I didn't know that. I've nothing in my personal messages that I would feel uncomfortable letting anyone read... well... except NYEric who accused me of being addicted... wouldn't want HIM seeing me trying to buy another plant from another member what with HIM calling me addicted and all in another thread. Anyway, Heather told me how to forward so I know how to do that and you're welcome to a forward of either pm complete with the personally identifiable information of the senders.

Forgot to mention that I had another private message before these two asking for whole flower heads of Cypripedium spp. claiming he/she was "collecting data on how long the polinator cells will reamin vital".
 

Rick

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Maybe Matt Gore can put together a concise side by side comparison of the new and old rules???

He imports a fair amount and is probably pretty steeped in the matter.
 

Candace

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Lauren, I get a few e-mails now and then(not through this forum but through my website) from people wanting divisions who are located in other countries. Sometimes I think it's ignorance of the CITES rules on their end, and sometimes I think they're just hoping I'm ignorant.

Just because someone sends you an e-mail with a request doesn't mean you're obligated to respond. The delete key works wonders and solves many problems.;) If someone is harrassing you, do let the Admins. know, but I'd just suggest ignoring these folks.
 

kentuckiense

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Yup, I got an email today from China requesting to trade for Cyp. parviflorum and Cyp. reginae seeds. I don't even grow Cyps and I'm a bit unsure as to how they got my personal email address, but I have no doubt they had good intentions. Over the past year I've gotten emails from all over the world requesting seed from the kentuckiense population I visited and photographed. They were all from people who were clearly accomplished propagators and had clear conservation interests in mind. I wish I could've helped, but the seed pods weren't mine to harvest. Just keep in mind that it is the poorly-thought-out and counter-productive "conservation" laws that are the real enemies.
 

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