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[Hakone]

I don't know anything about availability of adult Cypripedium passerinum and arietinum in Germany. :

- does not mean that they do not exist in Germany

Both species are very difficult in cultivation in Germany for special reasons. Passerinum is a little bit easier than arietinum.:

- assumption

in memory:

you have a cordigerum, still lives. If not why.

If all the plants die after purchase, what is the error . You or the plants .

 

[Hakone]

just my two cents for the discussion... calceolus grows naturaly in Europe (and of course even centuries before CITES convention!)... but if I want to bring a plant from Switzerland (also grows naturally there, but this country is not part of the EU!) I need CITES and Phyto certificate... simple as that...

Cyp. calceolus grow like weeds in Europe. Why do you want another more take to Europe. I do not understand your logic , why you are looking for something more complicated. Are calceolus from Switzerland different from calceolus from Europe.

 

[Kavanaru]

Cyp. calceolus grow like weeds in Europe. Why do you want another more take to Europe. I do not understand your logic , why you are looking for something more complicated. Are calceolus from Switzerland different from calceolus from Europe.

It is a hypothetical example, just to illustrate that you NEED cites and phyto to bring cyps into teh EU. If you cannot understand that, your problem!

on the other hand, to make the hypothetical example understandable for you... I recently moved from Switzerland to France, if I would have had a nice clon of calceolus or any otehr Cyp available in the EU and CH, I would have wanted to bring it with me. In this case, I am not making things complicated, but still need CITES and Phyto, otherwise, I would have been breaking the laws in Switzerland and the EU, bringing plants illegally with me (illegal, because I had no CITES, not because they are illegal plants in the EU)

 

[Hakone]

It is a hypothetical example, just to illustrate that you NEED cites and phyto to bring cyps into teh EU. If you cannot understand that, your problem!

on the other hand, to make the hypothetical example understandable for you... I recently moved from Switzerland to France, if I would have had a nice clon of calceolus or any otehr Cyp available in the EU and CH, I would have wanted to bring it with me. In this case, I am not making things complicated, but still need CITES and Phyto, otherwise, I would have been breaking the laws in Switzerland and the EU, bringing plants illegally with me (illegal, because I had no CITES, not because they are illegal plants in the EU)

- you live only with hypothetical ?. never with practically ?

- when you moved from Switzerland to France : compost your CYPs in Switzerland , buy new in Europe. Who is your problem.

- we are talking past each other:

a/- Cyps need Cites to import to Europe.

but

b/- All cyps you can by legal in Europe . Why do you want they to import to Europe. Does it cost money and time.

 

[Berthold]

- you live only with hypothetical ?. never with practically ?

Who is your problem?

Hakone is the problem :evil:

 

[Kavanaru]

- you live only with hypothetical ?. never with practically ?

what? ???
guy go and take your pills!

 

[Hakone]

what? ???
guy go and take your pills!

It is a hypothetical example, just to illustrate that you NEED cites and phyto to bring cyps into teh EU. If you cannot understand that, your problem!

on the other hand, to make the hypothetical example understandable for you... I recently moved from Switzerland to France, if I would have had a nice clon of calceolus or any otehr Cyp available in the EU and CH, I would have wanted to bring it with me. In this case, I am not making things complicated, but still need CITES and Phyto, otherwise, I would have been breaking the laws in Switzerland and the EU, bringing plants illegally with me (illegal, because I had no CITES, not because they are illegal plants in the EU)

take pills , you or me ?

to make the practical example understandable for you... : compost your cyps in Switzerland , buy new in Europe.

 

[cnycharles]

b/- All cyps you can by legal in Europe . Why do you want they to import to Europe. Does it cost money and time.

you didn't read the one person's post, that there are many plants illegally brought to europe, native-dug plants. yes, as you say they are so-called 'legally available' because of deceitful importers/exporters, though many know that they came to europe illegally. the person replied that they want to import legal, flask-derived plants so that they know for sure that their plants were not dug up from the ground. many plants were brought in before cites came into effect, but that doesn't mean that all plants are legal, just because they have the same species name. if a plant was illegally brought into a country, then it is an illegal plant. it is deceitfully sold as a 'legal' plant; so a person is not legally buying a plant that was dug up somewhere else, they are being deceived, being told that it's legal, when it really isn't. there is a clear difference, and the people that want to import species with cites paperwork so that they are clearly legal, and not deceitfully sold illegal plants, want to make sure they are completely legal, and importing with paperwork is how they ensure this. not everyone does business with a wink and a nod, they have more character and integrity than that

kavanaru's point that you also didn't read, was that if he had a clone that was very desirable, he would want to bring that with him. cites papers would be necessary. if he could get that same or very similar clone elsewhere in europe, then it would make sense for him to sell his plant to someone else, or make seedlings of his plant in flask, and then have someone send him that flask after he has moved.

 

[Hakone]

you didn't read the one person's post, that there are many plants illegally brought to europe, native-dug plants. yes, as you say they are so-called 'legally available' because of deceitful importers/exporters, though many know that they came to europe illegally. the person replied that they want to import legal, flask-derived plants so that they know for sure that their plants were not dug up from the ground. many plants were brought in before cites came into effect, but that doesn't mean that all plants are legal, just because they have the same species name. if a plant was illegally brought into a country, then it is an illegal plant. it is deceitfully sold as a 'legal' plant; so a person is not legally buying a plant that was dug up somewhere else, they are being deceived, being told that it's legal, when it really isn't. there is a clear difference, and the people that want to import species with cites paperwork so that they are clearly legal, and not deceitfully sold illegal plants, want to make sure they are completely legal, and importing with paperwork is how they ensure this. not everyone does business with a wink and a nod, they have more character and integrity than that

kavanaru's point that you also didn't read, was that if he had a clone that was very desirable, he would want to bring that with him. cites papers would be necessary. if he could get that same or very similar clone elsewhere in europe, then it would make sense for him to sell his plant to someone else, or make seedlings of his plant in flask, and then have someone send him that flask after he has moved.

"you didn't read the one person's post, that there are many plants illegally brought to europe, native-dug plants. yes, as you say they are so-called 'legally available' because of deceitful importers/exporters, though many know that they came to europe illegally. ......"

1/- before cites came into effect were many cypss have been imported to EU and multiply. After cites came into effect , these plants were legal. You can buy and sell the plants inside EU.

2/- after cites came into effect was a lot of cyps imported into EU, with Cites paperwork . The plants were multiply and sold.

3/- the one person's post assumes that all plants were illegal in EU. Is that correct ?

4/- example : phytesia, crustacare , Frosch , Prins ...ect...

sell the plants with paper . Why do not buy from them, but again import . That is my question.


" kavanaru's point that you also didn't read, was that if he had a clone that was very desirable, he would want to bring that with him. cites papers would be necessary. if he could get that same or ......"

1/- kavanaru wrote : “ If he had a clone …..” , If is conjunctive , is hypothetical ..

2/- If indeed a beautiful clones was, would the seller (kavanaru bought this beautiful clone of him) has already made flask , kavanaru can buy from him the seedling when he moved from Switzerland to France. Is not that simple ? or we should philosophize ?

 

[Kavanaru]

Cnycharles, do not waste your time... it is obvious Hakone read but do not understand english... He only understand hakonian...

1/- kavanaru wrote : “ If he had a clone …..” , If is conjunctive , is hypothetical ..

2/- If indeed a beautiful clones was, would the seller (kavanaru bought this beautiful clone of him) has already made flask , kavanaru can buy from him the seedling when he moved from Switzerland to France. Is not that simple ? or we should philosophize ?

Hakone, FYI:

"Conjunctive", in the way it exists in spanish or the way it exists in german (which is different!) does not exist in english. I was using the. "conditional", which on its way is NOT the same as hypothetical...

for the rest, no need to explain you the difference of what I said and what you wanted to understand... you would not understand it anyway...

 

[Hakone]

Cnycharles, do not waste your time... it is obvious Hakone read but do not understand english... He only understand hakonian...




Hakone, FYI:

"Conjunctive", in the way it exists in spanish or the way it exists in german (which is different!) does not exist in english. I was using the. "conditional", which on its way is NOT the same as hypothetical...

for the rest, no need to explain you the difference of what I said and what you wanted to understand... you would not understand it anyway...

Kavanaru ,

" It is a hypothetical example, just to illustrate that you NEED cites and phyto to bring cyps into teh EU. If you cannot understand that, your problem!"

what do you mean by " It is a hypothetical example " ???? which means hypothetical in English ? unrealistic or realistic ?