Dragon's Blood / Sangre de Grado

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gonewild

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Well said Rick! I was glad to read your previous post on the 'results' of what makes a chemical considered effective. Drives me right back to DB, neem oil, anything but a chemical as a last resort. There is a whole world out there of essential oils, I will continue to try this & that. It's funny - have you ever heard of 'super bugs' resulting with the use of essential oils?? Has one ever heard of resistant 'bugs' resulting with the use of essential oils?? It's really too bad it's being overlooked, but then again if it were satisfying the scientific results group then as previously stated, the $10 bottle would be costing $80!

I suppose if essential oils were used in the same manor as "chemicals" Supper Bugs would develop that are resistant to the oils. Plants in nature that contain the essential oils all have their pathogens that have evolved to be resistant to the oil's "chemical" contents.
 

Hien

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Any comments about the EPA requirement of DANGER as the signal word? You don't see this on very many plant protectants. In addition, here's an exerpt from the label...

DANGER: Corrosive. Causes irreversible eye damage and
skin burns. May be fatal if swallowed. Harmful if absorbed
through the skin. Do not get in eyes, on skin, or on clothing.
Prolonged or frequently repeated skin contact may cause
allergic reaction in some individuals.

Ken Brewer

Comments from the EPA.!
Huh!
The same EPA that declared that the air at WTC is clean ! yah!

http://www.epa.gov/opprd001/inerts/
http://www.pesticide.org/inertspage.html
I don't buy the argument of not disclosing the inert for business trade secret for even in a second.
Give me a F.....g break. (Don't they patent every damn things ever exist, therefor there is a length of time that other peoples can not use the same formulae) I believe the real reason is that if they list everything out loud, we may think twice about using their products.:mad:
 
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Eric Muehlbauer

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Getting back to corn gluten meal....I haven't read anything about it beyond what has been printed up by Gardens alive in their catalog. I thought it sounded like great stuff...I ordered it and my wife yelled at me for putting bright yellow baby puke all over our lawn. It didn't work, but I brought it in for my students to work on...it didn't work for them either, as I said. Many years later, I ordered it again, hoping that maybe it had been improved. I still have baby puke on my lawn. I still get crabgrass. And I still find that I can plant anything I want after applying the stuff without any loss in germination. I'm going back to controlling crabgrass the traditional way...pull the suckers out....while tolerating so many bites from asian tiger mosquitoes that I have become immune to them...and a (very rare) squirt of round-up if they get too dense...Take care, Eric
 

Rick

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I haven't seen any listed cure rates for carbenocillen. But that's probably the crux of this whole thread. Everybody claims a cure but this is generally a qualitative statement. Our quantified expectations are 100%, an ethical cure supplier would hope for at least 20-30% better than doing nothing at all. By the time all is said and done, a really great cure is one that probably works at least 50% better than doing nothing.

There are an incredible number of variables to account for, and the really good growers are the ones that can read into the most variables and adapt and use the tools they come up with to grow the most/biggest flowers. It's as much magic as science.
 

Rick

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The superbugs comment kind of cracks me up. I haven't heard about them with regard to essential oils, but I have with regard to new and incredible bacteria species found in streams downstream of cattle yards and sewage treatment plants where there is a constant low dose of various antibiotics.

It's pretty amazing the amount of hormones and antibiotics that people pee out that goes right through the treatment plants into the environment. This is getting to be pretty common knowledge, and there have been some really good high school science fair projects on this topic. But its opened up whole new areas of genetic research and studies on how bacteria evolve and exchange genetic information between each other.
 

TheLorax

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Maybe you could try it again? It's pretty butt ugly though and there are other products that are considerably cheaper that you don't have to apply as frequently. I spread it around mid March and follow up at 4 week intervals after that. I masque the hideous color by hand spreading a little top soil over the top of it. That practice reduces one's need to wear sunglasses when looking at a bed of plants that has been "treated". I've had decent luck using it but it doesn't kill dandelions for me and I have been using it for three consecutive years which I doubt has much to do with how effective it is although there are those claiming keeping up with using the product does make a difference.

All you have to do to get that desired weed control is to put up with that baby puke on your lawn for 4 years according to this document-
http://www.extension.umn.edu/projects/yardandgarden/ygbriefs/h531cornglutenmeal.html

Here's all I found on it from Iowa state doing a quickie search-
http://www.hort.wisc.edu/mastergardener/Features/weeds/corngluten/corngluten.htm

Here's another "how to"-
http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/how-to-use-corn-gluten-meal.pdf

And here's the corn gluten meal research page, doesn't look too beefy to me-
http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/?

They all claim it works but then most of them are making money selling it too. Not so surprisingly, almost every web page I visited claiming it worked also just happened to have a handy dandy list of suppliers made available to viewers.

Seriously, I think it is working for me but I apply it frequently and start while the snow is basically still on the ground. It looks rather festive around here. It's that white/yellow combination that smacks you in the face when you drive up to our home that is so... unexpected at that time of year.
 

TheLorax

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Our quantified expectations are 100%, an ethical cure supplier would hope for at least 20-30% better than doing nothing at all. By the time all is said and done, a really great cure is one that probably works at least 50% better than doing nothing.
I'd be happy with around 30%.
 

Rick

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I'd be happy with around 30%.

I think I'm getting at least that with dragons blood. But I have to pay attention to the rest of the environment, particularly humidity and airflow. I'm also finding allot of species specific requirements.

I had a decent batch of phrag lindlianum seedlings. I though they would like higher light with intermediate temps. But as they matured and started adding new growths, the erwinia kicked in. Using DB I would get a temporary hold on the infection, until another growth would start and get a more vigorous infection taking out more leaves and growths until taking out the whole plant. I moved some of the treated plants into the shade, and this seems to have stopped the recurrence issue. Several plants that never got infected in the first place started growing at twice their initial rate when moved into the same shadier/cooler spots.

So the moral of the story would be to optimize growing conditions before spending to much time and effort on cures. I used to be in the aquarium and herp biz, and my philosophy was that if something is sick the environment must be wrong. So when I get a sick plant I consider the cure as buying time to find and correct the environmental issue that I'm not seeing.
 

gonewild

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I think I'm getting at least that with dragons blood. But I have to pay attention to the rest of the environment, particularly humidity and airflow. I'm also finding allot of species specific requirements.

I had a decent batch of phrag lindlianum seedlings. I though they would like higher light with intermediate temps. But as they matured and started adding new growths, the erwinia kicked in. Using DB I would get a temporary hold on the infection, until another growth would start and get a more vigorous infection taking out more leaves and growths until taking out the whole plant. I moved some of the treated plants into the shade, and this seems to have stopped the recurrence issue. Several plants that never got infected in the first place started growing at twice their initial rate when moved into the same shadier/cooler spots.

So the moral of the story would be to optimize growing conditions before spending to much time and effort on cures. I used to be in the aquarium and herp biz, and my philosophy was that if something is sick the environment must be wrong. So when I get a sick plant I consider the cure as buying time to find and correct the environmental issue that I'm not seeing.

Excellent advice.
 

TheLorax

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But I have to pay attention to the rest of the environment, particularly humidity and airflow. I'm also finding allot of species specific requirements... So the moral of the story would be to optimize growing conditions before spending to much time and effort on cures... So when I get a sick plant I consider the cure as buying time to find and correct the environmental issue that I'm not seeing.
I've never found a substitute for providing good growing conditions. No silver bullet out there to the best of my knowledge.
 
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Eric Muehlbauer

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Lauren- I use it the same way you do...and since I still have a big bag of it in my garage I will continue to use it until it runs out in a few years. And I'll never buy it again.......Eric
 

TheLorax

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I have a whole bin of it. I use it in and amongst the plants I have along the walkway from the driveway to the front doors.

We should take a picture to post of how bad this product looks when applied without a light layer of top soil. They probably don't believe us.
 

NYEric

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Dragon's Blood bump.

Hi. anyone got some DB to spare that they want to send/sell me? I have a couple of plants that I'm doing some control antifungal work and of course ran out of Dragon's Blood. I ordered more from Shop Gone Wild but might not survive the wait. If so, let me know please. Thanx. :D
 
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goldenrose

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I have an extra bottle I just got last week. I placed the order, 3-4 days later I had it. Depending on when you placed your order it might get there before mine! Just let me know......
 
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Corbin

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Hmmm .... interesting ....... look what you guys were up to while I was at work last night! :poke:
Results from both sides have indicated it works - it doesn't! Those of us that are experienced will probably continue to stick with what works for us.
:confused:I feel sorry for the newbie - OMG WHAT IS ONE TO DO?!

Exactly, and that is why I like the forum though. It at least give you more than just the opinion of the author of a book.
 

Heather

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I think I'm getting at least that with dragons blood. But I have to pay attention to the rest of the environment, particularly humidity and airflow. I'm also finding allot of species specific requirements.

I had a decent batch of phrag lindlianum seedlings. I though they would like higher light with intermediate temps. But as they matured and started adding new growths, the erwinia kicked in. Using DB I would get a temporary hold on the infection, until another growth would start and get a more vigorous infection taking out more leaves and growths until taking out the whole plant. I moved some of the treated plants into the shade, and this seems to have stopped the recurrence issue. Several plants that never got infected in the first place started growing at twice their initial rate when moved into the same shadier/cooler spots.

So the moral of the story would be to optimize growing conditions before spending to much time and effort on cures. I used to be in the aquarium and herp biz, and my philosophy was that if something is sick the environment must be wrong. So when I get a sick plant I consider the cure as buying time to find and correct the environmental issue that I'm not seeing.

That's pretty interesting. I have a plant that has not been growing well, and was treated w/ DB, but it was months ago, before it was in my possession, actually. Just another sign that my conditions are NOT right at this point in time. Pfftt...
 

NYEric

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That's pretty interesting. I have a plant that has not been growing well, and was treated w/ DB, but it was months ago, before it was in my possession, actually. Just another sign that my conditions are NOT right at this point in time. Pfftt...

If the plant has not been growing well, [whatever that means], and it's previously been treated w/ DB for a fungal problem. Maybe you should try teh DB now that it's in your possession [lots of s's there]. I find DB works well in high humidity situations, like S/H or how I grow. Of course if a plant being wet is spreading fungus through the water vector I would move it into a slightly drier situation until the problem has been controlled.
 

Heather

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I don't have DB, but it also isn't still suffering, I think the problem was with Erwinia and I've not had a problem since I received the plant but it does seem to be a slower grower. That is very likely due to my cooler conditions.

My plants were not growing very well because they had been brought inside to a 65° environment. If they aren't cool growers, they are likely to sulk.
 
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