Differece between zieckianum and wentworthianum. Is there any at all?

Discussion in 'Taxonomy' started by dodidoki, Jan 21, 2010.

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  1. Jan 21, 2010 #1

    dodidoki

    dodidoki

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    I found these photoes on net.(none of them is mine!) I can see same flowers......(first and second is zieck, third and fourth is wentworthi)
     

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  2. Jan 21, 2010 #2

    tomkalina

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    The major difference has been noted by others to be that the Paph. zieckianum flower has spots on the proximal (inner part) of the petals, while wentworthianum lacks them. We've also seen clones of zieckianum with sharper leaf tessellations than wentworthianum. Paph. zieckianum and Paph. papuanum are supposed to be synonymous, but many of the adult plants in the US marked papuanum have turned out to be Paph. violascens.
     
  3. Jan 22, 2010 #3
    All those photos look like papuanum to me. Tom- you would know better than me, but it was in the pre-CITES days of importing collected paphs that all "papuanums" turned out to be violascens. Nowadays, there are simply no papuanums...and few violascens.
     
  4. Jan 22, 2010 #4

    Roth

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    wentworthianum plants would look closer to mastersianum in size and leaf shape. zieckianum are smaller plants with harder leaves. Other than that, I wondered if wentworthianum is not a variety of zieckianum, whose real name is papuanum anyway. The fourth picture is not clear, but does not seem to be wentworthianum...
     
  5. Jan 22, 2010 #5

    tenman

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    For me, wentworthianum, papuanum, and mastersianum are all the same species.
     
  6. Jan 22, 2010 #6

    UweM

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  7. Jan 22, 2010 #7

    dodidoki

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    I don't think so. I think first three ones are papuanum, fourth is wentworthi.(it has no dots on sepals)
     
  8. Jan 22, 2010 #8

    Roth

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    That one is sure a wentworthianum

    http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14223&highlight=wentworthianum


    Mastersianum, and wentworthianum/zieckianum are as different as delenatii is from armeniacum, it is impossible to mix up those two ones. Wentworthianum and zieckianum is a more complicated story. I have seen wentworthianum with dots on the petals, and zieckianum without any dots, with various flower shapes. Wentworthianum is coming from Guadalcanal, and a couple of the other islands in the Solomons exclusively, and it could be a geographic variant of the real papuanum/zieckianum from nearby PNG...
     
  9. Jan 25, 2010 #9

    tenman

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    I think often the difficulty in popular identity of these sort of lesser-known and similar species is the often widespread mislabelling of plants in the trade, leading to an even greater difficulty in identifying just exactly what's what. I've seen this with other groups, and the misidentification just gets worse with each passing generation of plants as more are bred and traded around with incorrect or confusing labels.
     
  10. Jan 25, 2010 #10

    valenzino

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    In my opinion,the problem in this group,is only caused by misslabeling by indonesian who tried to sell plants with different names to sell more and cause of ignorance about this Paph group.In my opinion this are the species with variants(and no way to get wrong between species cause are very different....but can get wrong easily with variants):

    Species variants
    mastersianum mohrianum

    violascens bouganvilleanum,saskianum

    papuanum zieckianum(still difficult to say if synonim or not)

    wentworthianum

    after have seen the plants once everyone can easily recognize in wich goup belongs.
     

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