Deflasking/compotting P. liemianum seedlings

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The Orchid Boy

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I ordered a flask of P. liemianum from Fox Valley Orchids. I'm going to deflask/compot using the 'agar on' method. I'll be using a fine bark, charcoal or perlite, and maybe a tiny bit of sphag mix. My temps and humidity is listed below. I know how to deflask but I want more details as to the care of a new compot. Tips?

Should I use T8s or T5s? And how far should the seedlings be from a T5 or T8 light?
 
For a newly deflasked baby, T-8....and at least a foot away. You can increase light gradually, if they start to grow well.
 
Can you tent them or otherwise figure out a way to increase humidity?

Seedlings right out of flask have soft tender leaves, and are used to very high humidity.
 
Well now I'm not sure what meathod of compotting I'll use. This page at the bottom https://lab.troymeyers.com/flasking/article.php?about=Flaskling-Care explains how Troy Meyers Conservatory does it. I've heard of 2 different agar on compotting methods. First one is taking seedlings out of flask and it doesn't matter much if the agar falls off. You put all the seedlings in a pot that has been mostly filled with media and put the agar over the roots. Second method is the "puck method". You take all seedlings out of flask and be careful to leave everything intact. Then you have a puck of agar with the orchid roots and set that on top of mix in pot and fill in a little. What are your suggestions? How do you deflask and compot?
 
Most everything I get is from Troy and already deflasked. So haven't needed to try the puck method.

A year or so ago I got some flasks (in whiskey bottles) in from Thailand. Unfortunately the shipping was pretty traumatic and everything was jumbled up in the flask on arrival. Also I couldn't get anything out of the bottles without breaking them open.

So I ended up washing most of the old agar, dead leaves, and broken glass off the plants before potting them up.

If you have the luxury of getting something still settled in agar in a wide mouth jar, then I'd say go for it with regards to just setting the whole thing on the media.

But I've received hundreds of deflasked seedlings from Troy that start out just fine.
 
I use equal parts of small CHC or bark with chopped sphagnum.

Maybe 1/4 part of small sponge rock and charcoal. Maybe a little sand. I like to use those plastic berry containers since they are slotted up already for good drainage.
 
agar on is best for that flask..i deflasked a liemianum flask couple months ago from FVO, as well, and they are doing great as is.. just put them on top of your substrate , and cover the exposed agar with small medium bits...put them where they would get about 50 to 100 FC light (with lights).water as you would your other plants, your humidity is fine (same as mine)
 
I've deflasked a few lately. (by the way, summer is definately the best time to order if you have a choice)
If you get the plants undisturbed, I would highly recommend opening the flask and leaving it for a week before touching them.
Most of the fasks I get are from Thailand in whisky bottles and invariably they are all tossed around with agar all over the place and sometimes many broken leaves/roots. After a couple of bad attempts deflasking these damamged plants ( cutting off all the broken leaves, smearing anti- fungle/bacterial on the cut surfaces and potting in standard seedling mix) It was a disaster. On 2 of the flasks I lost all but 2 plants and they look like they're on the brink.
Now with the damaged ones, I break the bottle straight into a bucket of water with the fungicide (banrot) and wash them all one by one with a hand sprayer and set them to dry out COMPLETELY on paper. The drying is the #1 most important point I think. Don't worry about damaging them, Its always the moisture thats the enemy. I no longer cut anything! I then pot into clean (just moist) NZ sphagnum and set them on bottom heat with air moving 24/7. No more losses!!! After a month or so you can do whatever you want with them. I have never tried the agar on method though I would like to see some pics of the process/progress:poke:
 
I have always washed them completely. Once I have them potted up I put a zip-lock bag over them as a tent. I haven't lost any seedling. Agar used to transport seedling can be very firm/hard and I would be careful about it drying out/turning rock hard.
 
After hearing all these success stories using the agar on method I tied it with a few compots. I had awful results. The seedling first seemed fine for about three weeks, like they didn't skip a beat . Then they started to not look so good. After about a month of this I unpotted them to find the agar had not dissolved but got harder, so it was not letting water to the roots or letting the mix fall in around them. Most of the roots were dead. So I washed it off and repotted in fresh mix and now they are fine. It may have to do with the kind of agar that was used and its consistency.
 
When you wash agar off, do you separate seedlings or leave in a clump?

I might ask Tom about the agar he uses and how he compots new seedlings.
 
I pull off some big chuncks to get it going then use a spray bottle to blast off the rest. You don't have to get it all off. I just get most of ut so the mix actualy settles around the plants. Then I do one whole clump in a three or four inch pot. Or break it in two clumps in two or so inch pots. It depends if it is easy to get a part. Or if the roots are in one clump.
 
I have not had good results using the "agar on" method of deflasking/compotting; the seedlings do well initially, then decline.

Here's the method that works best for me:

First, I unscrew the lid of the 500 ml plastic flask, then I rap the open mouth of the flask sharply against my left palm (I'm right handed) until the mass of seedlings comes out with the entire agar mass still intact. Holding the mass of seedlings in my left hand by the leaves, I wash off as much agar as will easily come off with a thin, high pressure stream of water. The mass of seedlings should hold together. I'm left with a fairly clean seedling mat that gets placed on top of our seedling bark mix in a 3.25" square pot. I then fill the remainder of the pot with mix so the base of the sdlgs is about 1/4" below the surface of the mix. I also make sure I sift enough bark mix between the seedlings, carefully rapping the sides of the pot to settle the mix (Obviously, I remove enough mix from the top of the seedlings to keep from burying them under mix). The compot is then placed under a four tube bank of T5's @ approx. 500 fc light intensity running 12 hours/day. I water the compots twice a week and fertilize at approx 70ppm N using the old standby Peter's 30-10-10 every second watering.

It's not the only method out there, but it works for us. Hope this helps...
 
oops, I bought the same flask of liemianum, but mis-read the instructions. I took the seedlings/puck whole out of the flask and put it into a pot with a little chopped sphagnum underneath and on the sides (had firm scouring sponge underneath to hold moss up), and then sifted/watered more chopped sphagnum on top and around the seedlings. after reading this, I will wash most of the media away from roots and then put seedling bark all around and on top

they get low light. they don't have to have a lot of light when small
 
I got some Schultz Orchid Mix today and it was on clearance and I knew it was fine and dusty. I rinsed it for a few minutes and got all dust and the smallest bark pieces out. Here's what it looks like, with a penny for size comparison. The pot was full until I rinsed all small bit out. Now it is less than half full.
P1050994_zpsdff34dc7.jpg


The bark is very flat. I could mix this with the tiny bit of medium fir bark I have. I also have perlite and charcoal I could mix in. Or should I use sphagnum moss. Haven't heard from Tom to know exactly when flask will get here but I think it may arrive on Thursday or Friday.
 
Here's a picture of some "fine bark", bark pieces that I picked out of the medium bark. It has charcoal and a tiny bit of spag mixed in. Would this mix, the above bark with things added, or a mix of both of these barks be best?

P1050995_zps81c830b4.jpg
 
Your mix should work fine as long as you keep it moist. I wouldn't worry too much about washing out the finer pieces of mix - they will retain a little more moisture around the roots. You could also add about 10% perlite to your mix to keep it from compacting over time. Also, make sure you're using a plastic pot - not clay, as clay would keep the roots too cool.
 
Here's a picture of some "fine bark", bark pieces that I picked out of the medium bark. It has charcoal and a tiny bit of spag mixed in. Would this mix, the above bark with things added, or a mix of both of these barks be best?

P1050995_zps81c830b4.jpg

I think that's a little coarse for deflasking. It does need to stay damp (coarser dries faster). As Tom said a bit of perlite helps.
 

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