H
heliomum
Guest
How do they have hybrids and cultivars of slippers if there's no meristem?
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Candace
Well-Known Member
Divisions. That's why slippers tend to be more expensive.
gonewild
Grower
There is a meristem. The problem with cloning is a matter of isolating it.
M
mccallen
Guest
As mentioned, slippers orchids (like all plants) do have meristems and it is possible to clone them, it's just more difficult and the results are usually not pretty.
That said I did just notice this and I'd be curious (though admittedly not $50 curious) to know if there have been some new developments...
That said I did just notice this and I'd be curious (though admittedly not $50 curious) to know if there have been some new developments...
gonewild
Grower
I'm not quite sure why you would want to buy a clone of a rather common Paph species for $50 when you don't know what it is a clone of? It states in the info that they don't know what the flower quality will be. Maybe it will be like the flower shown or maybe not. Maybe the value is for the oddity of having a cloned Paph.
M
mccallen
Guest
I agree entirely. It seems like this technique would be more useful in increasing the number of plants produced for crosses with low germination rates than for making yet more delenatii.
Last edited by a moderator:
D
Drorchid
Guest
Actually I am the one that cloned this Paph. delenatii. The picture shown is the actual clone (we called it 'My Time') in bloom. This was NOT a meristem clone of an existing Paph, but rather I had crossed 2 Paph delenatii's and made seedlings in the lab. I noticed that one of the seedlings was proliferating (making sideshoots/side protocorms) so I kept it separate from the other seedlings. After replating this seedling it still kept proliferating and I was eventually able to make 14 flasks with 15 to 20 plants each. When they eventually all bloomed the flowers all did look identical to each other. Also the foliage of all plants looked identical, showing they were in fact all clones of each other. This happens more often with other orchids, in particular any orchids in the Oncidium alliance. It also often happens with Phragmipediums. Once in a while I will notice it with Paph's. In particular with complex hybrids, and anything with Paph. sanderianum in it's background.
I don't think mericloning of Paph's will be very viable like they do with Phalaenopsis or Vanda's in the near future, this was just a coincidence that I was able to clone this particular seedling.
Robert
gonewild
Grower
Robert,
Your explanation makes sense as to why someone would want to purchase the clone if the plants are actually the same clone as in the picture. But the text on your web page sounds like the flowers might turn out to be something different so that was a little confusing.
Your explanation makes sense as to why someone would want to purchase the clone if the plants are actually the same clone as in the picture. But the text on your web page sounds like the flowers might turn out to be something different so that was a little confusing.
D
Drorchid
Guest
I agree, we need to update the text. The text was written before the first "My Time' clone had bloomed, so we were not sure what the flower was going to look like. When it did bloom, it actually turned out to be a very nice quality flower with very large flat flowers. That is the problem when you are able to clone a seedling in the lab like I did with this Paph, that you are not sure what the flowers are going to look like. The reason I went ahead and made so many flasks of this one seedling is that I had a pretty good Idea it was going to look good, as I knew what the parents were. At the time (when I made the cross) they were the best Paph. delenatii plants with the largest and best shaped flowers that we had.
Robert
Robert
D
Drorchid
Guest
I changed the wording on our website. Thanks Lance for pointing that out!
Robert
Robert
T
The_Plant_Piper
Guest
Hello. I am new to the forum and this topic is of the utmost interest to me. I have an interest in mutations and trying to breed them and/or isolating sports to establish new cultivars of things. One day I hope to have a tissue culture lab, though most likely not for orchids. I'm at the very beginning of educating myself re: labwork. I've never been much of an orchid person, though admittedly, they are spectacularly beautiful.
Can't resist a mutant though! And my interests have been swept up into whole new genera of plants before based on a single chance find.
I've brought home pelorics, only to discover the phenomenom is somewhat commonplace and un-exotic. So, How did I do this time? The plant was totally unlabeled, except for the (unfortunate) $50 price tag. Thankfully, there was a dried up bloom on the short little stalk that I could recognize as a "slipper" form even with my little knowledge.
In some species of plants, central variegation like this would prove somewhat stable. Its on every leaf of just this one fan of foliage off to the side of the pot with 3 other normal fans more centrally potted. *I* like the way it looks anyway.
Disheartening to hear that there is so little success with tissue culture of orchids. Or, perhaps, one day I will take that as a challenge? The invitro aspect of orchid breeding sounds intriguing though. But I don't want to spread myself too thin. So right now I'm just playing show-and-tell, I guess, and hoping I can keep the little bugger alive to see it bloom again.
Hope someone appreciates this:
Can't resist a mutant though! And my interests have been swept up into whole new genera of plants before based on a single chance find.
I've brought home pelorics, only to discover the phenomenom is somewhat commonplace and un-exotic. So, How did I do this time? The plant was totally unlabeled, except for the (unfortunate) $50 price tag. Thankfully, there was a dried up bloom on the short little stalk that I could recognize as a "slipper" form even with my little knowledge.
In some species of plants, central variegation like this would prove somewhat stable. Its on every leaf of just this one fan of foliage off to the side of the pot with 3 other normal fans more centrally potted. *I* like the way it looks anyway.
Disheartening to hear that there is so little success with tissue culture of orchids. Or, perhaps, one day I will take that as a challenge? The invitro aspect of orchid breeding sounds intriguing though. But I don't want to spread myself too thin. So right now I'm just playing show-and-tell, I guess, and hoping I can keep the little bugger alive to see it bloom again.
Hope someone appreciates this:
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Variegated foliage would be nice; not as nice as tasselation, but still nice.
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
What do you have this plant growing in? It looks like potting soil for house plants
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Looks like coconut coir.
T
The_Plant_Piper
Guest
Had a look. Looks like typical potting soil.
What is likely to be best?
I'm thinking of dividing off the sport soon, if I can gather some info and some courage? So maybe a more optimal media could be employed. Is division/re-establishment difficult?
I just looked at the sport and realized that the white stripes on each leave are raised, giving the leaves an added dimensionality.
What is likely to be best?
I'm thinking of dividing off the sport soon, if I can gather some info and some courage? So maybe a more optimal media could be employed. Is division/re-establishment difficult?
I just looked at the sport and realized that the white stripes on each leave are raised, giving the leaves an added dimensionality.
SlipperFan
Addicted
Welcome to the forum.
I've heard -- don't know if it's true or not -- that this kind of marking may be caused by a virus.
I've heard -- don't know if it's true or not -- that this kind of marking may be caused by a virus.
PaphMadMan
phytomanic
I think the strips are way too uniform to be caused by a virus. Looks like a sectoral chimaera to me.
PaphMadMan (Kirk)
PaphMadMan
phytomanic
Re-establishing after division isn't difficult if a plant is healthy, but why risk it? You are more likely to get a healthy vigorous new growth soon if it has the support of the rest of the plant. Then you can assess whether the variegation is stable. If you get plain green leaves you can divide it then to try to force another growth and see if you get lucky.
Go ahead and repot it in something more suitable than potting soil though. Bark or coconut husk based mixes are safe choices for someone new to paphs.
PaphMadMan (Kirk)
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
I agree with PaphMM.
You need some kind of "open" mix. A good size nursery would have "orchid" mix. Normally made of 1/4-1/2" pcs. for tree bark carcoal same size or so and sponge rock (white expanded lava). Usually not good to have most orchid in a "heavy" potting mix. A major requirement for orchids is air at the root zone
Google orchids and potting mixes
PaphMadMan
phytomanic
Many orchids are easily cloned via tissue culture, just not slippers.
PaphMadMan (Kirk)
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