CITES question

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Kinabalu

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I have a question on how CITES works, hopefully someone can explain it clearer. To my understanding there is a couple of orchids that have not been collected in situ with permits yet but have been illegally collected. If seeds are produced in horticulture from illegally collected parents are the resulting seedlings or cultures “clean” and considered “legal”? Also does it depend on how each country views CITES regulations?
 

mormodes

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CITES enforcement depends on the country. In the USA they track the provenance of the plant back to the setting and harvesting of the pod. Wild collected plants are illegal. They have to be raised from seed in a nursery. Not all countries agree with that last provision. Some say the new growths that arise in a nursery makes them commercially grown. The USA doesn't see it that way. However, if a paph is confiscated and grown on in a USFW plant rescue center (usually a botanic garden) a flower from a new growth (that grew in the center) can be set, and the resultant pod is then legal. I think that's what the Perners do. They show pictures of themselves with park rangers in their lectures. They are licensed or know people who are licensed by China to go into the national parks and set pods. The Perners then harvest the pods under conditions set by the Chinese authorities. They flask up the seed, grow the plants up and sell them in the US market. In some countries the totality of the seed needs to be accounted for. You can't plant a portion of it and put the rest on the black market. Its tracked. How they know I have no idea. By definition flasks are commercially grown, but the source of the seed is what's under scrutiny. Otherwise anyone could go set a pod of whatever illegal paph you want, harvest the pod, flask it up and sell the flasks. The USFW service will want to know where you got the seed. I have no idea how it works in Australia or Canada or Europe. And again, if you are caught mislabeling your flasks, you go to federal pen for that.
 

mormodes

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In the USA if you own the land on which Cypripediums grow you can harvest and sell those plants and seed... I *think* there's still some sort of license or proof you have to supply. It's in that last chapter of 'Orchid Fever' if you want to look.
 

mormodes

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Within the last year of so Koopowitz wrote an editorial in Orchid Digest about CITES and importing paphs. In the next edition Roddy Gabel corrected Koopowitz's opinions. That would be another place to look.
 

mormodes

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But yes. It's a real pisser that Michael Tibbs can sell rungsurianum and make hybrids with in Europe and we can't get them in the US.
 

Kinabalu

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Ok thank you, some interesting thoughts. So what if the seeds were from a US grower who runs a small nursery but the parent plants in his collection used to make the seeds were not legally collected?
 

tnyr5

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There is no way, except to have it confiscated and grown at a rescue center, to legally produce seed from an illegally collected plant, not even if it means saving the species from extinction.
 

alex.sorensen51

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Like in selling parrots,it depends on the provenance surrounding the plant....no previous precedent,then no export
 

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