Building a basement growing room

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Dave-in-Virginia

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Hello folks. I am a beginning slipper grower in the Washington, DC area. I've had Phalaenopsis for many years and have gardened for decades but slippers are new to me. I have about 10'x17' in my basement utility room for an indoor growing area. The room has no windows. I'm on well and septic. I'm handy with tools. I'm planning on setting the 36" wide growing trays on sawhorses at waist height for access and will store stuff beneath. I'll use rubber sheet (EPDM) to line the trays. I'm thinking of bringing the liner up 12" on the sides. My well water is 55F and free, so I could put (say 4") of cold well water in the trays at night to cool the slippers. If the tray is 12" deep that would also cool 8" of the plants and roots, assuming that the trays holding plants are set 4" off the tray bottoms.

Is 12" tray depth a good depth to accomplish my cooling goals? I could make the tray deeper or more shallow. I have some bull dogs coming soon which should need night time cooling, but the maudiaes may not need it. With 36" wide trays I'll have a 3' aisle down the center of the room. I have a greenhouse attached to my house but it's too hard to cool in the summer and too hard to warm in the winter so I don't use it much. I will put a couple 275 gallon totes in it to collect rain water which will gravity feed to the basement room. One corner of the growing room needs a reservoir for the rain water, probably with a submersible aquarium water heater. In Virginia we get 40" of rain a year so I don't think I'll ever run out of rainwater.

The room slopes to a floor drain and there is a wall drain where I had intended to put a second washer/dryer. The entire concrete utility room floor is set 1/2" below the rest of the basement (I built the house). So I think I'm covered in the event of water leak disasters, which is why I lean toward water solutions. There is space for shelving above the bench but with about 115 square feet of growing area on the trays I probably have enough growing space for a while. The walls are 8' high. I'll cover the walls and ceiling with a white plastic tent. I could use a dehumidifier in the winter, or I could use an old 3" vent from a former gas water heater (now converted to elec) for ventilation controlled by humidistats fans which turn on when humidity reaches a set point. I have some Spider Farmer lights and am ordering more lights from Botanical LEDs. I don't have enought lights yet. I have some old metal halide and sodium vapor lights which I could use to help on heating if needed. I'd like to dedicate a corner for quarantine. I have plenty of electrical connections in the room with GFIs. I'll need some kind of a zipper door or maybe a glass slider door, I haven't looked for one yet. I have room for a refrigerator in the utility room outside of the tent. I think I'll just use room fans for air movement. I'll take the orchids outside for the summer and I'm guessing this growing room will be used October to April. I want to automate as much as possible because I'm a lazy person at heart. I don't like carrying water buckets back and forth and explaining to my wife how I spilled algae water on the carpet.

So what am I missing? I'm not worrying about nutrition yet, that comes later. I'm trying to work out the big things now. I have space and time to install anything that will make things easier in the long run. Should I put in room for a potting bench? A sealed and vented box for fumigation?

If I sound like I know what I'm talking about please don't be fooled. I am a beginner orchid grower and have a lot to learn! Thanks in advance for your help.

Dave
 
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Hi! When you say slippers, do you mean Paphs or Phrags? If Paphs, you do not want the pots standing in water. Then pots should be able to drain completely.

Also, what is the temperature in the basement? You mention cooling, which might be good for some types of Phrags, but Paphs are intermediate-warm growers. 55F would be too low for either.
 
Hi! When you say slippers, do you mean Paphs or Phrags? If Paphs, you do not want the pots standing in water. Then pots should be able to drain completely.

Also, what is the temperature in the basement? You mention cooling, which might be good for some types of Phrags, but Paphs are intermediate-warm growers. 55F would be too low for either.
Paphs in the beginning, Phrags later. Sorry for not being clear about pot placement. The pots won't be standing in water, they'll be in tupperware trays set above the bottom of the rubber liner. If I use cooling water at night the trays with orchids would be above the water level. Typically the tupperware tray would have a plastic grid light diffuser on the bottom with 1/8" of water, and the pots would be sitting on the grid. The bottom of the pot shouldn't touch the water for fear that capillary action would wick water up into the pot. I saw the growing room of a friend the other day and he drilled holes in the tupperware tray about 1/8" up from the bottom so the bottom would always have a bit of water for humidity, yet the drain hole kept water from touching the plant. I liked that arrangement because overwatering a pot would not cause any problems.

The basement temp is typically 5-10F cooler than the main level in summer and 5F warmer in winter. So in the winter the basement is probably the low 60sF and in the summer it is probably mid 70sF. I read that bulldogs prefer to be cooler than Maudiae. Even if they tolerate the same warmer temps as Maudiae they grow better if cooler. I hear that bulldogs are harder to get to rebloom so I'd like to give them every cultural advantage to help with rebloom. Do you think cooler nights will help with that? Or do you think that nighttime cooling is overkill?
 
As far as I'm concerned, you needn't bother with your cooling efforts.

In PA, I grew in a greenhouse that had zones that might have gotten down to 50°, but the slippers were in an area that never got below 60°, including the bulldogs. Now that I'm in NC with no greenhouse, they grow out on my deck for a full 7 months a year (or more), most of the time never going below 75° at night. In winter, they're in a house that's a pretty steady 73°, and they're doing just fine.
 
Hi,

It sounds like you are putting some good thought into this!

I might suggest getting a grow tent as opposed to using a plastic cover. Most grow tents have reflective interior that helps spread the light around. They are also fairly durable.

It doesn't sound like your temperatures are that bad, but I'll admit I'm not too familiar with bulldog paph culture.

What I do to manage the temps in the summer when it is 110f+ outside is set the light timer to turn on 4am and off at 4pm. This also saves $$ on energy since the rate/kw is higher during 5-8pm peak use.

Good air movement is a must! Get several clip on fans and aim them so no dead air spots. This will help with temperatures and should avoid the need for a dehumidifier (though I might be wrong about this since I never lived on the humid east coast).

Lastly, I would avoid watering at night if possible. Early morning or just before the light turns on is better in my opinion but might not matter too much if the foliage stays dry.
 
As far as I'm concerned, you needn't bother with your cooling efforts.

In PA, I grew in a greenhouse that had zones that might have gotten down to 50°, but the slippers were in an area that never got below 60°, including the bulldogs. Now that I'm in NC with no greenhouse, they grow out on my deck for a full 7 months a year (or more), most of the time never going below 75° at night. In winter, they're in a house that's a pretty steady 73°, and they're doing just fine.
Thanks for the advice Ray, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about slippers. If your bulldogs bloom reliably without lower night temps then that says a lot. Having grown up in the DC area you know how miserably hot our summers can be: 95F every day with 100% humidity. We usually try to conserve energy and don't use the AC much until it gets really hot outside. Then we mentally break down and run the AC at full blast because we just can't take the heat, and don't worry about what the electric bill is going to be.

So if cool nights aren't a major factor in bulldog blooming, why do people have trouble getting them to bloom?
 
Hi,

It sounds like you are putting some good thought into this!

I might suggest getting a grow tent as opposed to using a plastic cover. Most grow tents have reflective interior that helps spread the light around. They are also fairly durable.

It doesn't sound like your temperatures are that bad, but I'll admit I'm not too familiar with bulldog paph culture.

What I do to manage the temps in the summer when it is 110f+ outside is set the light timer to turn on 4am and off at 4pm. This also saves $$ on energy since the rate/kw is higher during 5-8pm peak use.

Good air movement is a must! Get several clip on fans and aim them so no dead air spots. This will help with temperatures and should avoid the need for a dehumidifier (though I might be wrong about this since I never lived on the humid east coast).

Lastly, I would avoid watering at night if possible. Early morning or just before the light turns on is better in my opinion but might not matter too much if the foliage stays dry.
I like your idea to use lights at night with the lowered electric bills. Even though the modern LED's are miserly in their electric use, every little bit helps. I will take your advice and use as many fans as necessary to keep the air moving. I agree with you about morning watering. Even with good ventilation it is safer to have dry leaves before night to prevent fungal disease. On the humid east coast my understanding is that either a dehumidifier or exhaust fans must be used, especially in winter when cool air doesn't need much moisture before it reaches saturation.

I see your grow tent idea. If I can find one of the right size I'll consider it. But I'm pretty stubborn about being a DIY guy and it would have to be a really good grow tent to tempt me away from a custom build. I visited a grow room of my new orchid friend Gego and his reflective mylar on the white plastic walls looked like it helped a lot. Thanks for the advice.
 
I would be interested to hear what other Northeastern-US-orchid growers have to say about the humidity. My initial reaction is to say you don't need to worry about a dehumidifier but that's only because I lived in the dry western half of the US all my life.

I can appreciate the DIY mentality. There's certainly other ways to achieve the same results.

I've been toying with the idea of a high flow rate, low pressure drip system that waters top down but avoids getting the leaves wet. I attached a picture of the emmiter I had in mind and envisioning of having enough of them to ensure no continous dry spots in the pots. These emitters would be attached to a pump filled with RO water and the pump regulated by a timer. That's the idea on paper anyways.

Best of luck in your venture and welcome to the group!
 

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Thanks for the advice Ray, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about slippers.
Don’t let my words fool you. There are a lot more experienced growers here than me. My “knowledge” is better classified as “observations”.

One thing I wonder is if the “cool” factor is more like that of phals? “Forever” we’ve heard that they needed a day/night temperature differential to bloom, but as Dr. Yin-Tung Wang, then of Texas A&M, proved, it was a period of reduced average growing temperature that caused spike initiation, not the actual temperatures.

He showed that a 10-15F reduction in the daily average for 10-14 days was the key to reliable spiking. Back in 2011 I plotted the data from a data logger, then replotted it as a 14-day running average. That year, my greenhouse averaged 86 degrees the second half of July, and reach a 70-75 degree average starting in mid-September through the start of October. If Dr. Wang was correct, I should have started seeing spike emerge some 6 to 8 weeks later, and that’s exactly what happened.
 
I would be interested to hear what other Northeastern-US-orchid growers have to say about the humidity. My initial reaction is to say you don't need to worry about a dehumidifier but that's only because I lived in the dry western half of the US all my life.

I can appreciate the DIY mentality. There's certainly other ways to achieve the same results.

I've been toying with the idea of a high flow rate, low pressure drip system that waters top down but avoids getting the leaves wet. I attached a picture of the emmiter I had in mind and envisioning of having enough of them to ensure no continous dry spots in the pots. These emitters would be attached to a pump filled with RO water and the pump regulated by a timer. That's the idea on paper anyways.

Best of luck in your venture and welcome to the group!
Thanks for your welcome.

I like emitters because they are easily programmed and good placement won't wet the leaves. I keep reading that oxygen in the root zone is important, so the "mad scientist" in me asks whether air emitters are possible.

What if you put an air emitter or spaghetti tube into the bottom of the pot and pumped in air based on rootball humidity? A hygrometer or humidistat and data logger on a sample plant might teach us whether 1 minute/hour or one minute/day after watering could maintain ideal root ball conditions. A controller could alternate between top down watering and bottom up air flow whenever the rootball humidity dropped to a set point. If that worked you might be able to water often just like daily afternoon rains in the wild without excess root moisture. Emitters, air pumps and controllers are cheap. I'm sure someone has researched oxygen and CO2 supply to root zones.

To expand on your RO water and pump idea, you could maintain several reservoirs of different nutrients and supply them in a pattern, together with purging rainwater to wash out salts. It seems that several emitter watering zones around the pot would need to overlap so salt doesn't build up at the edges of the moisture zones.

Then again... maybe there's an obvious reason why this hasn't been researched and maybe I shouldn't skip on my meds!

Thanks for sharing the emitter idea.
 
Don’t let my words fool you. There are a lot more experienced growers here than me. My “knowledge” is better classified as “observations”.

One thing I wonder is if the “cool” factor is more like that of phals? “Forever” we’ve heard that they needed a day/night temperature differential to bloom, but as Dr. Yin-Tung Wang, then of Texas A&M, proved, it was a period of reduced average growing temperature that caused spike initiation, not the actual temperatures.

He showed that a 10-15F reduction in the daily average for 10-14 days was the key to reliable spiking. Back in 2011 I plotted the data from a data logger, then replotted it as a 14-day running average. That year, my greenhouse averaged 86 degrees the second half of July, and reach a 70-75 degree average starting in mid-September through the start of October. If Dr. Wang was correct, I should have started seeing spike emerge some 6 to 8 weeks later, and that’s exactly what happened.
Your comment makes sense. Average temperature drop (combined with change in precipitation) would probably be a better indication of a change of seasons than a wider temperature difference between day and night. Although both probably happen during seasonal changes.
 
Your comment makes sense. Average temperature drop (combined with change in precipitation) would probably be a better indication of a change of seasons than a wider temperature difference between day and night. Although both probably happen during seasonal changes.
Ray, here's another crazy thought. In addition to temperature and precipitation changes, do you suppose that seasonal changes in wind also play a factor?
 
I agree with Ray. With the temperatures you are describing there would be no need for additiional cooling measures. Bulldog Paphs will grow and flower great for you.

You will get enough of a seasonal variation, and also a small diurnal swing with the LED on/off cycle.
 
Thanks Justin. I hear that bulldogs are more difficult than Maudiae so I'm trying to anticipate cultural problems. One book points out that bulldogs are not warm temp slippers, they are cool temp slippers that tolerate warmer cultures. That’s why I’ve been thinking about giving them a cooler environment than Maudiaes. But im not getting much specific bulldog cultural advice from books so I hope fellow hobbyists can help me out.
 
Dave, I doubt wind plays much of a role. Paphs tend to be low to the ground, surrounded by other plants, so I would expect that to dampen any wind effect.

I forgot to mention that in my temperature-tracking, I had at least 10-15 degree. Day/night variation in every month of the year, but the spiking only corresponded to that 2-week reduction in average.
 
Ray, thanks for that information. I kept coral reef aquariums and that technical background makes me biased toward technical solutions. A reefer's approach to changing seasons would involve change in wind direction/velocity/temperature, plus changing most of the other variables. Corals are incredibly sensitive and that approach is probably overkill with orchids. Give me a little time and I'll probably soften my approach to orchid solutions involving less technology, more biology.
 
Hello folks. I am a beginning slipper grower in the Washington, DC area. I've had Phalaenopsis for many years and have gardened for decades but slippers are new to me. I have about 10'x17' in my basement utility room for an indoor growing area. The room has no windows. I'm on well and septic. I'm handy with tools. I'm planning on setting the 36" wide growing trays on sawhorses at waist height for access and will store stuff beneath. I'll use rubber sheet (EPDM) to line the trays. I'm thinking of bringing the liner up 12" on the sides. My well water is 55F and free, so I could put (say 4") of cold well water in the trays at night to cool the slippers. If the tray is 12" deep that would also cool 8" of the plants and roots, assuming that the trays holding plants are set 4" off the tray bottoms.

Is 12" tray depth a good depth to accomplish my cooling goals? I could make the tray deeper or more shallow. I have some bull dogs coming soon which should need night time cooling, but the maudiaes may not need it. With 36" wide trays I'll have a 3' aisle down the center of the room. I have a greenhouse attached to my house but it's too hard to cool in the summer and too hard to warm in the winter so I don't use it much. I will put a couple 275 gallon totes in it to collect rain water which will gravity feed to the basement room. One corner of the growing room needs a reservoir for the rain water, probably with a submersible aquarium water heater. In Virginia we get 40" of rain a year so I don't think I'll ever run out of rainwater.

The room slopes to a floor drain and there is a wall drain where I had intended to put a second washer/dryer. The entire concrete utility room floor is set 1/2" below the rest of the basement (I built the house). So I think I'm covered in the event of water leak disasters, which is why I lean toward water solutions. There is space for shelving above the bench but with about 115 square feet of growing area on the trays I probably have enough growing space for a while. The walls are 8' high. I'll cover the walls and ceiling with a white plastic tent. I could use a dehumidifier in the winter, or I could use an old 3" vent from a former gas water heater (now converted to elec) for ventilation controlled by humidistats fans which turn on when humidity reaches a set point. I have some Spider Farmer lights and am ordering more lights from Botanical LEDs. I don't have enought lights yet. I have some old metal halide and sodium vapor lights which I could use to help on heating if needed. I'd like to dedicate a corner for quarantine. I have plenty of electrical connections in the room with GFIs. I'll need some kind of a zipper door or maybe a glass slider door, I haven't looked for one yet. I have room for a refrigerator in the utility room outside of the tent. I think I'll just use room fans for air movement. I'll take the orchids outside for the summer and I'm guessing this growing room will be used October to April. I want to automate as much as possible because I'm a lazy person at heart. I don't like carrying water buckets back and forth and explaining to my wife how I spilled algae water on the carpet.

So what am I missing? I'm not worrying about nutrition yet, that comes later. I'm trying to work out the big things now. I have space and time to install anything that will make things easier in the long run. Should I put in room for a potting bench? A sealed and vented box for fumigation?

If I sound like I know what I'm talking about please don't be fooled. I am a beginner orchid grower and have a lot to learn! Thanks in advance for your help.

Dave
Dave, sounds like quite a complicated enterprise. How low does your basement temp go now in winter? I grow complex (bulldog) Paphs and have no trouble getting them to bloom with a low temp in my grow room of only 62-64 degrees in winter. In summer my high is 84 (small heater on a timer that runs it by thermostat to keep the temp up for the hours the lights are on, then it goes off and the temps drop by 10-15 degrees at night. In winter my high is 70-72 and low 62.
I’m not completely understanding your 55 degree water thing, but I think you can achieve the temps you need to bloom them without it. Do you know the PPM of your well water? If too high, have you considered r/o for your water instead of rainwater? My understanding (someone please correct me if I’m wrong) is that although rain water is pure at its source, as it falls through the atmosphere it potentially picks up a lot of things the orchids might not like, especially since you live in the city. If you will be growing any Phrags they require pretty pure water. Just my thoughts. I’m interested in what others say.
 
Dave, sounds like quite a complicated enterprise. How low does your basement temp go now in winter? I grow complex (bulldog) Paphs and have no trouble getting them to bloom with a low temp in my grow room of only 62-64 degrees in winter. In summer my high is 84 (small heater on a timer that runs it by thermostat to keep the temp up for the hours the lights are on, then it goes off and the temps drop by 10-15 degrees at night. In winter my high is 70-72 and low 62.
I’m not completely understanding your 55 degree water thing, but I think you can achieve the temps you need to bloom them without it. Do you know the PPM of your well water? If too high, have you considered r/o for your water instead of rainwater? My understanding (someone please correct me if I’m wrong) is that although rain water is pure at its source, as it falls through the atmosphere it potentially picks up a lot of things the orchids might not like, especially since you live in the city. If you will be growing any Phrags they require pretty pure water. Just my thoughts. I’m interested in what others say.
Southernbelle,

Although I've been in the house for 20 years I've never kept track of my basement temperatures. I'd guess that in the winter its around 65F and in the summer it might be 75F. I'll have to get serious about recording my temperatures from here on. Do you take your plants outside for the summer or leave them in the grow room all year? I'm glad to hear that bulldogs bloom well for you, maybe I can learn some culture tips from you.

I actually live in the woods but that doesn't guarantee that my rainwater is clean. I'll have to test it. I don't mind an RO system but a rain system seems a lot less work. I haven't tested my well water yet. It is relatively high in suspended solids so I run it through some canister filters for the whole house and change them monthly. If I find significant contaminants in the rain water maybe I can pump it through some activated carbon.

The water as coolant is fairly simple. I'd just let cool well water sit in the big tray while the pots are in smaller trays above the water line so they don't get wet. I was going to fill the trays at night and drain them the next morning, but several people tell me that bulldog paphs don't need that much cooling. So maybe I'll dispense with the water cooling idea entirely. I'll have to give it some more thought.
 
Your range of 65-75 is perfect for bulldog Paphs. I grow mine in this range, and they grow and bloom fine.

No need to go lower, and doing so will more likely cause problems such as slow growth and bacterial/fungal infection.
 
If you’ve got a way to collect and store rainwater, I’d go with that, and not be too concerned about contaminants.

It will likely be a bit acidic due to dissolved carbon dioxide and maybe air pollutants (not as big of an issue as it once was), but carbonic acid is very weak, so the moment you add anything to the water, it is immediately overwhelmed. Your biggest issues will be algae and bacteria, but an opaque tank and a splash of bleach or Physan will take care of them.

If you’d like to get a solid understanding of your water chemistry, head over to the J.R.Peters Lab website and request a sampling kit.
 

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