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masaccio

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I'm awaiting anxiously the arrival of the phyton I ordered for the new roths. In the meantime I located a product sold locally called Bonide. Has anyone used it with success (or failure) on orchids? Thank you!
 

masaccio

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Oh, sorry! (Duhhh!). The copper fungicide. Thank you.
 

masaccio

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Well anyway, the real stuff finally came. Comparing labels the Bonide Copper Fungicide contains .08% of Copper Octanoate (Copper Soap, it says) and .017% of Metallic Copper Equivalent (could this be the convincing blue dye?). Phyton contains 21.36% of Copper Sulphate Pentahydrate. Gee, I wonder which one is more effective. Bonide: ripoff, garbage.
 

Ray

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It is the elemental copper that is the pathogen killer, so they provide the chemical used to deliver it and the metallic equivalent - they are not additive.
  • Bonide Copper Fungicide is 0.017% Cu from copper octanoate - it is fully diluted for use.
  • Phyton 27 concentrate is 5.5% Cu from copper sulfate. Diluting it to the recommended 1-2 teaspoons/gallon makes it between 0.007 and 0.014% Cu
  • Southern Ag Liquid Copper Fungicide is 8% Cu from copper diammonium diacetate. Diluting it to 2 teaspoons/gallon makes it 0.001% Cu
So, in fact, the Bonide has the strongest concentration of copper of the three.

However I agree with you about the overall ripoff: if you standardize on the cost per application volume, it's different.
  • Bonide @ $10/quart = $40/gallon (Lowes)
  • Phyton 27 @ $34/2 oz = $2.83-$5.65/gallon (Repotme, including estimated shipping)
  • Southern Ag @ $17/pint = $0.35/gallon (First Rays, delivered)
Then, if you standardize those to the same % Cu as the Bonide:
  • Bonide $40/gal
  • Phyton $6.72
  • South Ag $0.57
However, if I have only one plant and need to treat it, $10 is all I'd have to spend at my local Lowes and be done with it.
 
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masaccio

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Game Set Match, you win. But I tossed the Bonide. :)
 

Ray

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So you threw away the more expensive-but-likely-more-effective one?
 

masaccio

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Only metaphorically. :) It may come in handy. I prefer the disgusting looking green stuff. But to that, doesn't the plant have to absorb the application? Some of the recommendations I read for Phyton before ordering specified that it was "readily absorbed." Would one product be better than another in that respect? Also, I watched the plant over the course of a few days after applying the Bonide while waiting for the Phyton to arrive. I could see some parts of the problem area seeming to heal, but not all of it even in the same area. But this is helpful. Not a chemist, not a botanist and I have very little experience with sick orchids. Thanks for the correction and guidance! Embarrassed that I didn't think to do the math on this.
 

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Just to clarify... in all except for Masaccio's first post

'Physan' was actually 'Phyton' true?
 

masaccio

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The intent was to compare Phyton with Bonide. The math seems right; Ray maybe wrote Physan when he meant Phyton. It happens.
 

Ray

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Yes, I meant Phyton, and have corrected it. Sorry.

Once in solution, the form of the copper ion is likely the same, so I cannot see one product being more easily absorbed than any other. Phyton has always made that claim, and at one time claimed it had an ingredient making it so, but as that would make it an active ingredient that had to be disclosed on the label, they have since dropped that statement

Copper is readily absorbed by plants both through the roots and through leaves that are not well-guarded by waxy cuticle layers, which is probably the reason folks warn to avoid spraying “thin-leaved” orchids like coelogyne and gongora, as they would absorb it so well it would be phytotoxic. It is then a quite effective system fungicide and bactericide.
 

masaccio

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A python might be fun. "The Better Mouse Trap", as seen in the popular magazine, Your New Life in the Woods.
 

Ray

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@Ozpaph - that citrus bulletin conflicts with several other pieces of literature I've read...
 

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