Smuggler with Australian native orchids - the power of the media

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Roth

Roth

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The Bozos in action. In fact it is hard to know whether I should cry or laugh, but the libel suit promises to be interesting :evil:

But at least I learned that dendrobium seedlings and cattleya seedlings hybrids are 'Australian native orchids'. Next time I will try to collect some Brazilian cattleya in Alice Springs, just to see... :evil:

Customs and Border Protection media release
Tuesday, September 18, 2012

Customs and Border Protection seizes native orchids during export attempt - 18 September
On Sunday (16 September) Customs and Border Protection officers at Perth International Airport seized Australian native orchids from a 34-year-old French man.

The man told Customs and Border Protection officers he came to Australia to address the Australian Orchid Council Conference in Perth last week. He said the orchids were given to him as gifts by conference attendees and he was taking them to Vietnam, where he lives.

Customs and Border Protection National Manager Airport Operations South, Tonie Differding, said this was a reminder that importers and exporters need to meet permit and identification requirements.

"As the exporter did not provide appropriate identification of the orchid species the decision was made to seize the material," Mrs Differding said.

"Our native plants and animals are very precious and need protecting. We work closely with partner agencies to prevent unwanted plants and animals coming to Australia and to stop the removal of our native species."

The orchids were seized on suspicion of being protected under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), in contravention of section 229(1) (n) of the Customs Act 1901 and the Environment Protection Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999.

The maximum penalty for the illegal export of Australian native flora and fauna is 10 years jail and/or an $110,000 fine.

Media enquiries: Customs and Border Protection Media (02) 6275 6793
Click to expand...

It took time to realize that the 5 dendrobium seedlings and 4 cattleya seedlings hybrids from Rosella ( a really excellent breeder and grower of mini catts and many other things...) were the 'Australian native orchids'...

PV from the Customs, scan from the original , 9 orchids in small black pots (plug/plug+ size...) :


And the invoice from the wild Koala who helped me poach the Sophrolaeliocattleya and other cattleya and dendrobium in plug pots and perlite, with thermoformed tags please, in the bush:



9 plants of hybrid orchids, in plug pot size, referred as 'australian native orchids' by someone from the press service of the Australian Customs who apparently had no pride or no glory, and tried to get her minute of glory that every human deserves, according to the tradition.

I am sure that she will have that at the court during a trial for libel :evil: :evil: :evil:

But at least their informant was right, I did have indeed 9 orchid seedlings with me :rollhappy:

On the other side, seeing as how distorted a story can be, we wonder what we can trust when we read the media. I tend to think ' not that much '.
 
Reading the 444A and the 13A of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation act 1999, quoted in the Notice of Seizure, it apparently does not apply to what they confiscated and I have some experience in that kind of paperwork, once I can get the laws/acts as I just did.

Luckily there is a form to get the specimens returned on the back of the notice :rollhappy:

But indeed it is funny, and in a way I am grateful to that informant, made a new experience to me, and a nice libel suite to come...
 
Did y'all put Xavier's birthday into the ST birthday calendar?

I think we should run his astrological chart now too, and add to the legend:wink:
 
gonewild said:
But the "crime" was committed on the 16th?
Before the plants were purchased?
Click to expand...

Actually when you are at a show it is difficult to print commercial invoices, so the invoice is printed once you return. It is very common and normal that, once the show is completed, the grower puts in the accounting the total earned at the show, and can issue hand written bills at the show. if you require a printed invoice, it is always after the show, and for official purposes, it is always better to have a printed one.

But that's really a funny story on one side I think :confused: :D
 
What a F**kn bunch of F**kn D**k Heads. It just confirms that the stupid f**king creeps would have absof**inlutely no f**kin clue if their arses were on f**kn fire!! They deserve a damn good thrashing:rollhappy:
 
Stone said:
What a F**kn bunch of F**kn D**k Heads. It just confirms that the stupid f**king creeps would have absof**inlutely no f**kin clue if their arses were on f**kn fire!! They deserve a damn good thrashing:rollhappy:
Click to expand...

Lol! Tell them what you really feel.
 
It took time to realize that the 5 dendrobium seedlings and 4 cattleya seedlings hybrids from Rosella ( a really excellent breeder and grower of mini catts and many other things...) were the 'Australian native orchids'...


9 plants of hybrid orchids, in plug pot size, referred as 'australian native orchids' by someone from the press service of the Australian Customs who apparently had no pride or no glory, and tried to get her minute of glory that every human deserves, according to the tradition.

QUOTE]

I must be missing something, I dont see anywhere they are referred to as 'Australian Native orchids', only X9 small orchids, the country of origin is australia, this is where you purchased them as proven by your receipt.

Stone said:
What a F**kn bunch of F**kn D**k Heads. It just confirms that the stupid f**king creeps would have absof**inlutely no f**kin clue if their arses were on f**kn fire!! They deserve a damn good thrashing:rollhappy:
Click to expand...

over-reaction of the day!
AQIS were right to seize the plants, the Xavier had no legal CITES permit. I dont want to get into an argument on the validity of CITES, but they are LAW in this country like it or not. I'm surprised Xavier wasn't hit with a massive fine
 
cattmad said:
I must be missing something, I dont see anywhere they are referred to as 'Australian Native orchids', only X9 small orchids, the country of origin is australia, this is where you purchased them as proven by your receipt.

AQIS were right to seize the plants, the Xavier had no legal CITES permit. I dont want to get into an argument on the validity of CITES, but they are LAW in this country like it or not. I'm surprised Xavier wasn't hit with a massive fine
Click to expand...

It is referred in the Customs press news, look the first part of my post, as Australian Native Orchids, that's where I complain... Hybrid orchids is something, it may be illegal or not, but in a way, there is nothing at all unethical, it does not destroy the wildlife, does not disturb anything in the wild, and that's it.

In fact I do grow a lot of pot plant things too here, for the purpose of assessing the growth and this kind of thing. Australian have a lot of interesting hybrids, from sarcochilus ( no I did not...) to dendrobium through cymbidiums, that have a large scale pot plant market potential, and when I see growers that I advise as a tech adviser, I like to inform to them where they can source new or interesting things, it is not really bad I think...

AQIS was not involved to seize the plants, about the massive fine, there is no need to dream about that, the fine is proportional to the value of the plants, and in fact, they were art propagated dendrobium and cattleya hybrid seedlings. On to the CITES, it is very litigious when it comes to the Appendix II species ( not the I, which is the subject of this forum...), because the mentions are about species, not hybrids, so it is very, very slippery, to be honest... Same about the Australian law, there is no reference to hybrids in the text quoted for the purpose of seizing the plants.

And you are right, they say 9 small orchids in small black plastic pots ( actually with a stapled thermoformed tag...), if you read, the press service of the australian customs converted it into australian native orchids, that's where they have a really BIG problem.

Technically it would be difficult to get a CITES permit for a car or a computer, and in fact, people have to go back to the CITES convention text, the original one, found at www.cites.org ...

As for the CITES Convention:

For the purpose of the present Convention, unless the context otherwise requires:

(a) "Species" means any species, subspecies, or geographically separate population thereof;

then

Regulation of Trade in Specimens of Species Included in Appendix II
1. All trade in specimens of species included in Appendix II shall be in accordance with the provisions of this Article.

and so on... The CITES Convention NOWHERE speaks about hybrids in fact, that's why I always said it is 'slippery'. The exempt hybrids in a resolution, but they do not confirm in the said resolution that the others hybrids are CITES covered...

In fact I never wanted to use that atomic weapon, even if I know about it for over a decade, because it open doors to many things, and could destroy completely the CITES Appendix II until they rewrite the entire convention, but anyway...

The main problem being that many countries did not pay attention, and did not include the resolutions in their local law, as there is one resolution that recommends the inclusion of hybrids in both CITES Appendix. A resolution of the CITES is not automatically converted into a local law.

Add to that that many countries do not understand what is an orchid, and the difference. The CITES Thailand gave an hybrid of Nigrohirsute dendrobium ( Dawn Maree x christianum...) as an example of dendrobium nobile hybrids...

That's the reason too I did not see anything wrong with the catts and dendrobium hybrids - hybrids... and I am quite certain that in a court, that would be really a massive problem.

Let's see how my lawyer will handle the libel part, but with the extension and versions floating around, it is very clear that it will be costly for them in a libel suite, especially if they have to publish rebuttal everywhere...
 
Roth said:
It is referred in the Customs press news, look the first part of my post, as Australian Native Orchids, that's where I complain... Hybrid orchids is something, it may be illegal or not, but in a way, there is nothing at all unethical, it does not destroy the wildlife, does not disturb anything in the wild, and that's it.

In fact I do grow a lot of pot plant things too here, for the purpose of assessing the growth and this kind of thing. Australian have a lot of interesting hybrids, from sarcochilus ( no I did not...) to dendrobium through cymbidiums, that have a large scale pot plant market potential, and when I see growers that I advise as a tech adviser, I like to inform to them where they can source new or interesting things, it is not really bad I think...

AQIS was not involved to seize the plants, about the massive fine, there is no need to dream about that, the fine is proportional to the value of the plants, and in fact, they were art propagated dendrobium and cattleya hybrid seedlings. On to the CITES, it is very litigious when it comes to the Appendix II species ( not the I, which is the subject of this forum...), because the mentions are about species, not hybrids, so it is very, very slippery, to be honest... Same about the Australian law, there is no reference to hybrids in the text quoted for the purpose of seizing the plants.

And you are right, they say 9 small orchids in small black plastic pots ( actually with a stapled thermoformed tag...), if you read, the press service of the australian customs converted it into australian native orchids, that's where they have a really BIG problem.

Technically it would be difficult to get a CITES permit for a car or a computer, and in fact, people have to go back to the CITES convention text, the original one, found at www.cites.org ...

As for the CITES Convention:

For the purpose of the present Convention, unless the context otherwise requires:

(a) "Species" means any species, subspecies, or geographically separate population thereof;

then

Regulation of Trade in Specimens of Species Included in Appendix II
1. All trade in specimens of species included in Appendix II shall be in accordance with the provisions of this Article.

and so on... The CITES Convention NOWHERE speaks about hybrids in fact, that's why I always said it is 'slippery'. The exempt hybrids in a resolution, but they do not confirm in the said resolution that the others hybrids are CITES covered...

In fact I never wanted to use that atomic weapon, even if I know about it for over a decade, because it open doors to many things, and could destroy completely the CITES Appendix II until they rewrite the entire convention, but anyway...

The main problem being that many countries did not pay attention, and did not include the resolutions in their local law, as there is one resolution that recommends the inclusion of hybrids in both CITES Appendix. A resolution of the CITES is not automatically converted into a local law.

Add to that that many countries do not understand what is an orchid, and the difference. The CITES Thailand gave an hybrid of Nigrohirsute dendrobium ( Dawn Maree x christianum...) as an example of dendrobium nobile hybrids...

That's the reason too I did not see anything wrong with the catts and dendrobium hybrids - hybrids... and I am quite certain that in a court, that would be really a massive problem.

Let's see how my lawyer will handle the libel part, but with the extension and versions floating around, it is very clear that it will be costly for them in a libel suite, especially if they have to publish rebuttal everywhere...
Click to expand...

OK, I was looking at the seizure notice. Interesting.

I know CITES has major issues, but if they were to simply say you only need CITES permits for species everybody would only ever import hybrids, the loophole would be exploited to no end.
 
cattmad said:
AQIS were right to seize the plants, the Xavier had no legal CITES permit. I dont want to get into an argument on the validity of CITES, but they are LAW in this country like it or not. I'm surprised Xavier wasn't hit with a massive fine
Click to expand...

Explain again why you need a CITES permit for exporting hybrids.
 
NYEric said:
Explain again why you need a CITES permit for exporting hybrids.
Click to expand...

Because the hybrids look exactly like species and the inspectors have the authority to hold for exam any plant passing the border.

Even though hybrids are not subject to CITES to protect yourself and the shipment from overzealous inspectors it is best to have a CITES certificate from the country of origin that the material is in fact artificially propagated hybrids.
With this the border inspector has no "valid" reason to question the contents.
 
Stone said:
What a F**kn bunch of F**kn D**k Heads. It just confirms that the stupid f**king creeps would have absof**inlutely no f**kin clue if their arses were on f**kn fire!! They deserve a damn good thrashing:rollhappy:
Click to expand...
1206655416529.gif
 
NYEric said:
Explain again why you need a CITES permit for exporting hybrids.
Click to expand...

in my expierience the exporting country is the one who supplies the CITES certificate

Australia is different in that you need an export CITES from the country of export and an import CITES from the asutralian government for any plants coming imported
 
cattmad said:
in my expierience the exporting country is the one who supplies the CITES certificate

Australia is different in that you need an export CITES from the country of export and an import CITES from the asutralian government for any plants coming imported
Click to expand...

It is the same in the USA.

The export country issues a CITES "certificate".
To enter the USA the importer must have a CITES import "license".

The certificate is specific to the contents of one shipment.
The license allows the importer to import repeated shipments.
 

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